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North opened a diamond, East passed, South bid 1 heart and West passed (written bidding) - sat back in her chair - said "oh" - leant forward and changed the pass to a double. North asked "did you change your mind on that call" and West said "yes". Director called.
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Another change of call
#1
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Posted 2014-April-01, 14:41
Australia
#2
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Posted 2014-April-01, 15:42
This is dealt with by Law 25B: Legal and Illegal Changes of Call | Call Intended (25A is for changing unintended calls).
1. A substituted call not permitted by A may be accepted by the offender’s LHO. (It is accepted if LHO calls intentionally over it.) The first call is then withdrawn, the second call stands and the auction continues.
2. Except as in 1 a substitution not permitted by A is cancelled. The original call stands and the auction continues.
3. Law 16D applies to a call withdrawn or cancelled
So LHO can accept the double, and the original pass is UI to the offenders, AI to the non-offending side.
If not accepted, the double is cancelled, the original Pass stands, and the double is UI to the offenders, AI to the NOS.
To be clear, 25A allows a player to correct "only if he does so, or attempts to do so, without pause for thought." It does not permit a change of mind.
1. A substituted call not permitted by A may be accepted by the offender’s LHO. (It is accepted if LHO calls intentionally over it.) The first call is then withdrawn, the second call stands and the auction continues.
2. Except as in 1 a substitution not permitted by A is cancelled. The original call stands and the auction continues.
3. Law 16D applies to a call withdrawn or cancelled
So LHO can accept the double, and the original pass is UI to the offenders, AI to the non-offending side.
If not accepted, the double is cancelled, the original Pass stands, and the double is UI to the offenders, AI to the NOS.
To be clear, 25A allows a player to correct "only if he does so, or attempts to do so, without pause for thought." It does not permit a change of mind.
#3
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Posted 2014-April-01, 16:51
So, there are no further restrictions on OS e.g. lead restrictions on spades or clubs for example?
Australia
#4
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Posted 2014-April-01, 17:20
Inferences about West's hand based on the withdrawn double are UI to East, so East should not lead (when on lead) a card suggested by those inferences unless she has no logical alternative.
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#5
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Posted 2014-April-01, 17:41
Thanks chrism and blackshoe .... long time no see blackshoe 
Australia
#6
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Posted 2014-April-01, 21:12
Hi, Chris, yeah, long time. 
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#7
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Posted 2014-April-02, 03:43
chrism, on 2014-April-01, 15:42, said:
This is dealt with by Law 25B: Legal and Illegal Changes of Call | Call Intended (25A is for changing unintended calls).
1. A substituted call not permitted by A may be accepted by the offender’s LHO. (It is accepted if LHO calls intentionally over it.) The first call is then withdrawn, the second call stands and the auction continues.
2. Except as in 1 a substitution not permitted by A is cancelled. The original call stands and the auction continues.
3. Law 16D applies to a call withdrawn or cancelled
So LHO can accept the double, and the original pass is UI to the offenders, AI to the non-offending side.
If not accepted, the double is cancelled, the original Pass stands, and the double is UI to the offenders, AI to the NOS.
To be clear, 25A allows a player to correct "only if he does so, or attempts to do so, without pause for thought." It does not permit a change of mind.
1. A substituted call not permitted by A may be accepted by the offender’s LHO. (It is accepted if LHO calls intentionally over it.) The first call is then withdrawn, the second call stands and the auction continues.
2. Except as in 1 a substitution not permitted by A is cancelled. The original call stands and the auction continues.
3. Law 16D applies to a call withdrawn or cancelled
So LHO can accept the double, and the original pass is UI to the offenders, AI to the non-offending side.
If not accepted, the double is cancelled, the original Pass stands, and the double is UI to the offenders, AI to the NOS.
To be clear, 25A allows a player to correct "only if he does so, or attempts to do so, without pause for thought." It does not permit a change of mind.
Chris3875, on 2014-April-01, 16:51, said:
So, there are no further restrictions on OS e.g. lead restrictions on spades or clubs for example?
There sure is!
Although the explicit references to Law 26 were removed from Law 25B with the revisions in 2007 Ton Kooijman made it perfectly clear in a lecture (May 2008) that this was just part of "cleaning" up Law 25. Law 26 is a general Law that applies whenever we have a withdrawn call unless there is an explicit clause to the contrary.
Law 25A4 includes such clause, Law 25B does not.
Law 26 always applies on the withdrawn (first) call (Law 25B1) or the cancelled (second) call (Law 25B2)
#8
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Posted 2014-April-02, 12:27
Unfortunately, I didn't attend that lecture. 
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#9
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Posted 2014-April-02, 15:07
blackshoe, on 2014-April-02, 12:27, said:
Unfortunately, I didn't attend that lecture.
Neither did I, but I received the papers.
#10
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Posted 2014-April-02, 18:57
pran, on 2014-April-02, 15:07, said:
Neither did I, but I received the papers.
Fine. Produce them, or a link to them.
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#11
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Posted 2014-April-03, 01:45
blackshoe, on 2014-April-02, 18:57, said:
Fine. Produce them, or a link to them.
Or else...
Watch out, Pran! You may get waterboarded, end up in the trunk of a car of have to clean toilets with your tooth brush.
Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
#12
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Posted 2014-April-03, 01:54
blackshoe, on 2014-April-02, 18:57, said:
Fine. Produce them, or a link to them.
The relevant part of the lecture is three pages in .pdf format.
I can upload them here if you show me how to do that.
Or I can email them to you if you provide me with your address.
Or ... ?
#13
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Posted 2014-April-03, 11:16
pran, on 2014-April-03, 01:54, said:
The relevant part of the lecture is three pages in .pdf format.
I can upload them here if you show me how to do that.
Or I can email them to you if you provide me with your address.
Or ... ?
I can upload them here if you show me how to do that.
Or I can email them to you if you provide me with your address.
Or ... ?
Not surprisingly, the site doesn't seem to support attachments. Try this: blackshoe.
Others may be interested in seeing these notes as well.
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#14
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Posted 2014-April-03, 13:48
blackshoe, on 2014-April-03, 11:16, said:
Not surprisingly, the site doesn't seem to support attachments. Try this: blackshoe.
Others may be interested in seeing these notes as well.
Others may be interested in seeing these notes as well.
And the paper "References to Law 26" has been sent.
#15
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Posted 2014-April-03, 15:18
pran, on 2014-April-03, 13:48, said:
And the paper "References to Law 26" has been sent.
Thanks.
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
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