When does dummy cease to be dummy
#1
Posted 2017-February-19, 04:41
(Although of course after an OLOOT there is presumably a presumptive declarer and presumptive dummy). Note that the auction period for the next hand might have already started e.g. when a player removes their hand for the incorrect board.
To help you - law 42B3: Dummy may draw attention to any irregularity, but only after play of the hand is concluded.
Get the facts. No matter what people say, get the facts from both sides BEFORE you make a ruling or leave the table.
Remember - just because a TD is called for one possible infraction, it does not mean that there are no others.
In a judgement case - always refer to other TDs and discuss the situation until they agree your decision is correct.
The hardest rulings are inevitably as a result of failure of being called at the correct time. ALWAYS penalize both sides if this happens.
#2
Posted 2017-February-19, 06:52
#3
Posted 2017-February-19, 07:41
Vampyr, on 2017-February-19, 06:52, said:
The difference is that play ends when a claim or a concession is made (except when a defender immediately objects to his partner's concession), and play ends at that time (Law 68D.
Dummy regains his full rights as a player when play ends which can well be before trick 13 has been played as it is never played on such boards.
The Laws do not specifically state that Dummy ceases to be dummy at this time, but I think it is fair to say that a dummy who has regained his full rights as player is no longer a Dummy.
#4
Posted 2017-February-19, 11:24
Get the facts. No matter what people say, get the facts from both sides BEFORE you make a ruling or leave the table.
Remember - just because a TD is called for one possible infraction, it does not mean that there are no others.
In a judgement case - always refer to other TDs and discuss the situation until they agree your decision is correct.
The hardest rulings are inevitably as a result of failure of being called at the correct time. ALWAYS penalize both sides if this happens.
#5
Posted 2017-February-19, 12:31
weejonnie, on 2017-February-19, 11:24, said:
What is the significance of the distinction you are trying to make? What else is it that a player can do after they cease to be dummy that they can't do while dummy?
London UK
#6
Posted 2017-February-19, 12:43
#7
Posted 2017-February-19, 14:29
#8
Posted 2017-February-19, 15:06
gordontd, on 2017-February-19, 12:31, said:
Well in the 2017 laws for instance you are not allowed to show dummy your hand.
Get the facts. No matter what people say, get the facts from both sides BEFORE you make a ruling or leave the table.
Remember - just because a TD is called for one possible infraction, it does not mean that there are no others.
In a judgement case - always refer to other TDs and discuss the situation until they agree your decision is correct.
The hardest rulings are inevitably as a result of failure of being called at the correct time. ALWAYS penalize both sides if this happens.
#9
Posted 2017-February-19, 15:38
weejonnie, on 2017-February-19, 15:06, said:
It seems obvious to me that there should be no prohibition on showing your hand to a former dummy after play is over.
London UK
#10
Posted 2017-February-19, 21:36
weejonnie, on 2017-February-19, 15:06, said:
I am curious what the reason for this was.
#11
Posted 2017-February-19, 23:45
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#12
Posted 2017-February-20, 01:21
Vampyr, on 2017-February-19, 21:36, said:
To make both sides responsible for avoiding the situation when a dummy looks at a defender's hand during play. This featured during the "racecars" incident in 2005 and it will no doubt be easier now for dummies to refuse to let a defender see their hand.
London UK
#13
Posted 2017-February-20, 03:04
blackshoe, on 2017-February-19, 23:45, said:
No Law says that, but this (as I said earlier) is when all restrictions on Dummy expires because play ends.
#14
Posted 2017-February-20, 03:08
gordontd, on 2017-February-20, 01:21, said:
HUH?
I suppose you mean "refuse to let a defender expose his hand to Dummy"?
#15
Posted 2017-February-20, 03:24
pran, on 2017-February-20, 03:08, said:
I suppose you mean "refuse to let a defender expose his hand to Dummy"?
Yes of course you are correct - too early in the morning
London UK
#17
Posted 2017-February-20, 06:26
gordontd, on 2017-February-20, 01:21, said:
I have been told by someone close to the incident that it wasn't a case of seeing defender's hand; rather dummy had heard something.
#18
Posted 2017-February-20, 07:04
Bridge is played one board at the time and one table at the time. If North is dummy at table 3 on board 1 of the Monday Pairs game on February 20th, 2017 at Bridge Club "TiOH" (Thirteen in One Hand, not some weird hydroxide of Titanium), then North will be the dummy at table 3 on board 1 of the Monday Pairs game on February 20th, 2017 at Bridge Club "TiOH" (Thirteen in One Hand, not some weird hydroxide of Titanium) forever.
It is an entirely different question who will be the dummy on board 2.
Rik
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
#19
Posted 2017-February-20, 07:13
Vampyr, on 2017-February-20, 06:26, said:
Are you talking about the same incident? I think dummy looked at the defenders' hand, and having seen the trumps were 3-0 made a signal with three of his fingers.
London UK
#20
Posted 2017-February-20, 09:11
gordontd, on 2017-February-20, 07:13, said:
Well, I think that dummy had heard something about the board. I cannot tell whose source had the better information.