Help
Scoring: MP
Pard deals and opens 1♠, RHO overcalls 4♥. Your call. Feel free to post a plan for the remainder of the auction if you so desire. LHO will bid 5♥ if allowed.
A strong minor two suiter in competition What is your call?
#1
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 54
- Joined: 2005-April-20
Posted 2005-September-22, 19:50
Playing 2/1 you hold:
Pard deals and opens 1♠, RHO overcalls 4♥. Your call. Feel free to post a plan for the remainder of the auction if you so desire. LHO will bid 5♥ if allowed.
Pard deals and opens 1♠, RHO overcalls 4♥. Your call. Feel free to post a plan for the remainder of the auction if you so desire. LHO will bid 5♥ if allowed.
#2 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-September-22, 19:57
I play X is neg, 4N is keycard in this auction (usually i don't play keycard in competitive auctions but 1M-4oM-4N is an exception). I won't make a neg X with this hand though, as it is almost sure to be passed. I would bid 5N pick a slam and hope for the best. I don't need much for slam to make, I could miss a grand but it's too tough. I'm just going to try to get to the right strain.
#3
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 144
- Joined: 2004-August-20
- Interests:INTERNET reading
Posted 2005-September-22, 20:47
The best is forcing pass here,IMO.
My BLOG on bridge game:
bridge blog001:
http://cf71632485.spaces.live.com/blog/cns...!1015.entry
bridge blog002:
http://cvl7163cf2485...st-22291-1.html
"You are not thinking. You are merely being logical". - Neils Bohr
bridge blog001:
http://cf71632485.spaces.live.com/blog/cns...!1015.entry
bridge blog002:
http://cvl7163cf2485...st-22291-1.html
"You are not thinking. You are merely being logical". - Neils Bohr
#4 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-September-22, 20:58
cf_John0, on Sep 22 2005, 09:47 PM, said:
The best is forcing pass here,IMO.
Huh? Pard has shown 11+, you could have 0. What is so forcing about a pass under these conditions?
#5
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,384
- Joined: 2004-February-16
- Location:Belgium
Posted 2005-September-23, 02:02
cf_John0, on Sep 23 2005, 04:47 AM, said:
The best is forcing pass here,IMO.
I can't understand that
How can you expect partner to see that pass as forcing when you can have 0 !?
5NT looks like the more practical bid We can still have 7 but it is too tough after the preempt.
Alain
Alain
#6
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,909
- Joined: 2003-December-02
- Gender:Male
- Location:Rimini-Bologna (Italy)
- Interests:Chess, Bridge, Jazz, European Cinema, Motorbiking, Tango dancing
Posted 2005-September-23, 02:28
Jlall, on Sep 23 2005, 01:57 AM, said:
I play X is neg, 4N is keycard in this auction (usually i don't play keycard in competitive auctions but 1M-4oM-4N is an exception). I won't make a neg X with this hand though, as it is almost sure to be passed. I would bid 5N pick a slam and hope for the best. I don't need much for slam to make, I could miss a grand but it's too tough. I'm just going to try to get to the right strain.
Justin, what would 1S-(4H)-5H be in your scheme ?
"Bridge is like dance: technique's important but what really matters is not to step on partner's feet !"
#7
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,384
- Joined: 2004-February-16
- Location:Belgium
Posted 2005-September-23, 02:36
Chamaco, on Sep 23 2005, 10:28 AM, said:
Justin, what would 1S-(4H)-5H be in your scheme ?
That shoud show a ♠ fit, imho
Alain
#8
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,909
- Joined: 2003-December-02
- Gender:Male
- Location:Rimini-Bologna (Italy)
- Interests:Chess, Bridge, Jazz, European Cinema, Motorbiking, Tango dancing
Posted 2005-September-23, 02:40
joker_gib, on Sep 23 2005, 08:36 AM, said:
Chamaco, on Sep 23 2005, 10:28 AM, said:
Justin, what would 1S-(4H)-5H be in your scheme ?
That shoud show a ♠ fit, imho
Agree (and I was not suggesting to use it for this hand), but what implications about hearts ?
1st round control, 2nd round control, EKB ?
"Bridge is like dance: technique's important but what really matters is not to step on partner's feet !"
#9
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 14,900
- Joined: 2004-May-11
- Gender:Male
- Location:Portugal
- Interests:Everything!
Posted 2005-September-23, 03:11
Me is bidding 5NT as justin, with the difference that I have no worries whatsoever of missing a grand 
#10
- World International Master without a clue
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 17,404
- Joined: 2003-November-13
- Gender:Male
- Location:madrid
Posted 2005-September-23, 05:00
5NT would be taken as GSF by my partner.
I would bid 5♦ hoping to be able to bid 6♣ next round.
I would bid 5♦ hoping to be able to bid 6♣ next round.
#11 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-September-23, 07:42
Chamaco, on Sep 23 2005, 03:40 AM, said:
joker_gib, on Sep 23 2005, 08:36 AM, said:
Chamaco, on Sep 23 2005, 10:28 AM, said:
Justin, what would 1S-(4H)-5H be in your scheme ?
That shoud show a ♠ fit, imho
Agree (and I was not suggesting to use it for this hand), but what implications about hearts ?
1st round control, 2nd round control, EKB ?
You don't need first round control for this bid imo (could be second). The reason is, if you don't want to FORCE to slam (via keycard or something else) but want to invite it, you have 2 bids, 5H and 5S. I would use 5S without a heart control, and 5H with one. So with a second round control under that logic 5H would be bid.
#12 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-September-23, 07:43
Fluffy, on Sep 23 2005, 06:00 AM, said:
5NT would be taken as GSF by my partner.
I would bid 5♦ hoping to be able to bid 6♣ next round.
I would bid 5♦ hoping to be able to bid 6♣ next round.
Might partner not correct with equal length (such as 2-2)? It seems like if this was your plan 5C then 5N would be better as it would get you to the right strain at least (and if 5m were to go all pass, you'd rather be in clubs I think).
#13
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,909
- Joined: 2003-December-02
- Gender:Male
- Location:Rimini-Bologna (Italy)
- Interests:Chess, Bridge, Jazz, European Cinema, Motorbiking, Tango dancing
Posted 2005-September-23, 07:52
Jlall, on Sep 23 2005, 01:42 PM, said:
You don't need first round control for this bid imo (could be second). The reason is, if you don't want to FORCE to slam (via keycard or something else) but want to invite it, you have 2 bids, 5H and 5S. I would use 5S without a heart control, and 5H with one. So with a second round control under that logic 5H would be bid.
Thx a lot Justin !
these sequences are not well documented, it's nice to have some suggestions about them.
"Bridge is like dance: technique's important but what really matters is not to step on partner's feet !"
#14
- Under bidder
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,797
- Joined: 2004-July-25
- Gender:Male
- Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Posted 2005-September-23, 10:20
4NT followed by 6C over 5H. Mikeh, I play 4NT as minors here, and not because it fits the hand. (just teasing 
)
)
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#15
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 9,151
- Joined: 2003-June-11
- Location:Southern California
Posted 2005-September-23, 15:40
My negative doubles stop at 4♦. Double of 4♥ is card showing - 13 preferably.
4N describes this hand pretty well. I will bid 5N over 5♦ which shows spade tolerance and great clubs. Over 5♣ I'm trying 5♥. If pard has a doubleton diamond, a grand is very much in the picture. All I really need are 3 bullets and 4 clubs.
I don't like a direct 5N. It preempts us and I think it show better spade tolerance than xx. I also can't squeeze in a heart cue bid.
4N describes this hand pretty well. I will bid 5N over 5♦ which shows spade tolerance and great clubs. Over 5♣ I'm trying 5♥. If pard has a doubleton diamond, a grand is very much in the picture. All I really need are 3 bullets and 4 clubs.
I don't like a direct 5N. It preempts us and I think it show better spade tolerance than xx. I also can't squeeze in a heart cue bid.
"Phil" on BBO
#16
- Group: Admin
- Posts: 14,566
- Joined: 2003-February-13
- Gender:Male
- Location:Amelia Island, FL
- Interests:Bridge, what else?
Posted 2005-September-23, 16:00
I play negative doubles much higher than the 4 level. But this hand I would never made a negative double here (now if they had bid 5♥ or 6♥ get back to me).
Over 4♥ I will also not bid 5NT. Partner will take this as pick a slam, for sure, but he will never imagine me with xx in ♠. I don't mind suggesting spades as a potential contract, but only AFTER I get him to pick a minor first. (And I am bidding a slam for us here)...
So I bid, 4NT with the (oh so un-original idea) of bidding 5NT over partners minor choice. Ideally this is some kind of pick a slam with interest primarily in the minor we just bid, but with a begruding tolerance for ♠.... if he corrects to 6NT I may shoot myself...
Should partner rebid ♠ despite my request for him to bid a minor, I will consider the possibility of grand slam.
Over 4♥ I will also not bid 5NT. Partner will take this as pick a slam, for sure, but he will never imagine me with xx in ♠. I don't mind suggesting spades as a potential contract, but only AFTER I get him to pick a minor first. (And I am bidding a slam for us here)...
So I bid, 4NT with the (oh so un-original idea) of bidding 5NT over partners minor choice. Ideally this is some kind of pick a slam with interest primarily in the minor we just bid, but with a begruding tolerance for ♠.... if he corrects to 6NT I may shoot myself...
Should partner rebid ♠ despite my request for him to bid a minor, I will consider the possibility of grand slam.
--Ben--
#17 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-September-23, 16:18
I'm not sure why partner would think 5N would show more in spades when im asking him to pick a slam in a MINOR 
With spade support I would support (5H or something else).
I guess if you play 4N as pick a minor then it makes sense for 5N to be something else, but unfortunately I play keycard here.
With spade support I would support (5H or something else).I guess if you play 4N as pick a minor then it makes sense for 5N to be something else, but unfortunately I play keycard here.
#18
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 54
- Joined: 2005-April-20
Posted 2005-September-23, 17:03
Thank you all for your comments, it was instructive to read the different treatments of 4NT and 5NT in this crowded auction.
I posted this hand for two reasons:
1. It actually came up Wednesday night in a club MP game.
2. I was wondering about the interpretation of 4/5 NT in this auction, especially in contrast to BPO-005D, an excellent problem in the newest BPO set. In that problem, the auction goes 1NT by pard, 4S by pesky RHO and the expert panel was split among 4NT's different possible interpretations (natural or two-suited takeout if memory serves me right). The hand in that problem was:
I posted this hand for two reasons:
1. It actually came up Wednesday night in a club MP game.
2. I was wondering about the interpretation of 4/5 NT in this auction, especially in contrast to BPO-005D, an excellent problem in the newest BPO set. In that problem, the auction goes 1NT by pard, 4S by pesky RHO and the expert panel was split among 4NT's different possible interpretations (natural or two-suited takeout if memory serves me right). The hand in that problem was:
Scoring: IMP
#19
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,016
- Joined: 2004-October-17
Posted 2005-September-24, 11:30
I am surprised to see that I am the only one to vote for 5♥.
Senshu
#20
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 9,151
- Joined: 2003-June-11
- Location:Southern California
Posted 2005-September-24, 12:38
Jlall, on Sep 23 2005, 02:18 PM, said:
I'm not sure why partner would think 5N would show more in spades when im asking him to pick a slam in a MINOR With spade support I would support (5H or something else).
With spade support I would support (5H or something else).5N is pick-a-slam - not pick a 'minor' slam. If 4N isn't KC then 5N is more clearly defined and should promise secondary spades. So 5N should promise at least secondary spade support...which I aint got. Are you really going to cue bid 5♥ on a 3=0=5=5?
I supposed you are fixed with 4N being KC here however. The idea of making a negative double with a weaker 6-5 than the subject hand makes me nauseous.
"Phil" on BBO