[ruotal]

1NT 2NT 3♣

2NT was take out for minors and 3♣ intend to be lebensohl by opps.

Is it alertable ?

They said it is not because 3♣ was a cuebid of the minor showed bt 2NT.


ruotal

[jikl]

It is alertable.

Some NCBOs would say it is not as it is "self-alerting". However the fact is, some play this as ♥ with a club stopper, some play it as takeout of ♣. The fact is there is no GENERAL Lebensohl agreement for this, everyone modifies it as they see fit.

Therefore, can it be misunderstood by the opponents. Yes.

Does it show ♣? No.

Where is the problem here?

Sean

[P_Marlowe]

ruotal, on Oct 19 2006, 11:01 PM, said:

<snip>
They said it is not because 3♣ was a cuebid of the minor showed bt 2NT.
<snip>

Great, they say, it is arificial, now I would
like to know, what it means.

But even if they dont alert ths,... you can
always ask.
If they bid our suit,I would like to now,
what it does mean, ... always.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[FrancesHinden]

Alerting rules depend on where you play, so there's no general answer.
But I wouldn't expect anyone to be damaged by a lack of alert, because
i) it's exceptionally unlikely that 3C is meant as natural
ii) it's not at all obvious what 3C means

[mr1303]

if 2NT is known to be specifically the minors, then there shouldn't be any damage. However, lots of people play different varieties of 2 suited overcall in these positions, and if the 2NT was just alerted (but not enquired about) then there is scope for damage.

It all depends.....

[helene_t]

I don't understand the auction. Is it
1NT-(2NT)-3♣-?

And how can 3♣ be lebensohl? Does that mean a weak take-out in either major?

Always better to say what it means instead of naming a convention.

[kenberg]

Does it matter?
a. It's highly unlikely it suggests playing in clubs.
b. Whether they alert or not, you will not know the meaning unless you ask.

I can't see how an alert or the lack of an alert would affect your choice of action. If you have clubs, you can double. If you have diamonds, you can bid them. If you have neither you can pass and if this is followed by two more passes you can be amazed. If, on general principles, you want to know what 3C shows, you will have to ask unless they have a very detailed convention card. This is true whether or not they say alert.


Of course it is reasonable to want to now whether or not it is alertable just for the sake of knowing. Reasonable but naive. The acbl has mad geniuses locked in dungeons constructing new interpretations of the rules governing alerts. It's unknowable.

[Al_U_Card]

kenberg, on Oct 23 2006, 05:19 PM, said:

Does it matter?

I can't see how an alert or the lack of an alert would affect your choice of action. If you have clubs, you can double. If you have diamonds, you can bid them. If you have neither you can pass and if this is followed by two more passes you can be amazed.

If only for the "inferences" that can be drawn by knowing what it means. If you have no bid after 3C, then by all means don't ask. If they have no agreement then it will not be alerted. Having an agreement requires the alert which then automatically protects all players at the table. Equity rules, so to speak.