[matmat]

you have a random bad hand (2=3=3=5 quacky 5 count, or something like that)

you're dealer


P - (1♠) - P - (1NT);
P - (2♠) - 2NT

opps play a fairly standard 2/1 in this situation.

what would you take this bid to mean at the table playing with a good partner, but nothing is discussed?

what would you like to have this bid mean in a discussed partnership?

[mike777]

minors or two suited......

[matmat]

mike777, on Jan 18 2008, 07:10 PM, said:

minors or two suited......

how two suited? and isn't minors equivalent to two suited?

[the hog]

If she has minors 5-5 would she not have bid 2NT immediately? I would assume something like a 31(4)(5) hand.

[matmat]

The_Hog, on Jan 18 2008, 07:34 PM, said:

If she has minors 5-5 would she not have bid 2NT immediately? I would assume something like a 31(4)(5) hand.

what sort of values?

[the hog]

matmat, on Jan 19 2008, 07:37 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Jan 18 2008, 07:34 PM, said:

If she has minors 5-5 would she not have bid 2NT immediately? I would assume something like a 31(4)(5) hand.

what sort of values?

A reasonable hand as she is forcing to the 3 level. I would expect the Cs to be too weak to overcall and ergo a pretty decent D suit.

[helene_t]

Playing an immediate U2NT or Michaels as sound, this is a trashy 5-5, any two unbid suits.

[matmat]

helene_t, on Jan 19 2008, 06:49 AM, said:

Playing an immediate U2NT or Michaels as sound, this is a trashy 5-5, any two unbid suits.

so is it a good idea to let opps exchange information before forcing to the 3 level on a bad hand?

[whereagles]

matmat, on Jan 19 2008, 12:14 PM, said:

helene_t, on Jan 19 2008, 06:49 AM, said:

Playing an immediate U2NT or Michaels as sound, this is a trashy 5-5, any two unbid suits.

so is it a good idea to let opps exchange information before forcing to the 3 level on a bad hand?

no. it's a horrible idea, in fact. Which is why overcaller must have some sort of excuse to make this bid, i.e., something like

Axxx
--
AKJx
JT9xx

eventually with minors the other way around.

[ArtK78]

Partner is pre-balancing. Partner expects the auction to be passed out at 2♠ and is balancing with a 2 suited hand, probably the minor suits.

[lilboyman]

Since they have a fit and partner did not bid unusual NT immediately, I expect 4/4 in the minors looking to push.

[matmat]

whereagles, on Jan 19 2008, 08:45 AM, said:

no. it's a horrible idea, in fact. Which is why overcaller must have some sort of excuse to make this bid, i.e., something like

Axxx
--
AKJx
JT9xx

eventually with minors the other way around.

That looks like a 1♦ overcall to me , or an uber-aggressive direct 2NT. why let LHO in on the bidding fun to show some values?

ArtK78 said:

Partner is pre-balancing. Partner expects the auction to be passed out at 2♠ and is balancing with a 2 suited hand, probably the minor suits.

Pre-balancing makes no sense to me here. RHO rebid 2♠, but could still be quite strong, and LHO may still have game invitational values. To me it is much different than the more classical (1M)-P-(2M)-blah pre-balance.

[655321]

Prebalancing, for example a decent 2245 perhaps.
Your hand can happily bid 3♣ now.

[rbforster]

You might also have a very strong hand unsuitable for a NT overcall lacking a spade stopper and lacking 3♥s for a tolerable takeout double.

xxx
Ax
KQJx
AKQx

The was a MSC problem like this in the bridge world. While the majority bid a heavy 1NT over 1♠ despite lacking a stopper, a minority passed and later bid 2N for the minors over 2♠ later.

[whereagles]

matmat, on Jan 19 2008, 09:13 PM, said:

(...) That looks like a 1♦ overcall to me

If you mean 1♦ OPENER, you're right. I didn't realize I this hand was dealer.

Still, this 2NT should be more or less the shape I said, perhaps with the space ace off. A rather fearsome/reckless overcall, but should be it.

[matmat]

whereagles, on Jan 19 2008, 04:50 PM, said:

matmat, on Jan 19 2008, 09:13 PM, said:

(...) That looks like a 1♦ overcall to me

If you mean 1♦ OPENER, you're right. I didn't realize I this hand was dealer.

Still, this 2NT should be more or less the shape I said, perhaps with the space ace off. A rather fearsome/reckless overcall, but should be it.

yeah. sometimes (read: usually) i am stupid.. please not that i am not advocating making insufficient bids.

[matmat]

Rob F, on Jan 19 2008, 04:43 PM, said:

You might also have a very strong hand unsuitable for a NT overcall lacking a spade stopper and lacking 3♥s for a tolerable takeout double.

xxx
Ax
KQJx
AKQx

The was a MSC problem like this in the bridge world. While the majority bid a heavy 1NT over 1♠ despite lacking a stopper, a minority passed and later bid 2N for the minors over 2♠ later.

I am surprised more didn't double. seems like a double to me.

[matmat]

long story short.

p bid this way with 4=4=4=1 18 count with ♠AQxx; I am not sure whether they intended it as natural or two suited takeout, but it was certainly not on the list of hands i was expecting

[Codo]

She had no 1 NT bid after 1 Spade avaiable?

Anyway, I had taken it is a take out into two suits and bid 3 Club.
She had bid 3 Diamond and you had played there.

I think she should have bid 1 NT first round and failing to do so, passing now and forever and hope for a top score in defence.

[whereagles]

matmat, on Jan 19 2008, 10:17 PM, said:

long story short.

p bid this way with 4=4=4=1 18 count with ♠AQxx;

hum.. wasn't pard supposed to be a passed hand?