[JoAnneM]

Hi, I need an example, or two, of a defense to 1NT that would be considered ACBL mid-chart.

Thanks very much.

[awm]

Standard example is Woolsey, where:

X = 4-card major + longer minor
2♣ = both majors
2♦ = one major
2M = that suit and a minor

You can construct others; basically the constraint is that bids other than X, 2♣ should show a known suit. For example Suction:

X = two non-touching suits
2♣ = diamonds or both majors
2♦ = hearts or spades + clubs
2♥ = spades or both minors
2♠ = clubs or diamonds + hearts

It's worth noting that on the West Coast, all defenses to 1NT are considered general chart.

[jdonn]

JoAnneM, on Nov 7 2008, 09:07 PM, said:

Hi, I need an example, or two, of a defense to 1NT that would be considered ACBL mid-chart.

Thanks very much.

Darnit Adam, I made this post before I saw yours. I'll just keep it even though it looks like I cheated off your test.

Woolsey is one.
DBL = 4 card major, 5 card or longer minor
2♣ = Majors
2♦ = Hearts or spades
2♥ = 5 hearts, 4 card or longer minor
2♠ = 5 spades, 4 card or longer minor

Another is suction.
2♣ = Diamonds or the majors
2♦ = Hearts or the black suits
2♥ = Spades or the minors
2♠ = Clubs or the red suits
2NT = Non touching suits, either clubs and hearts, or diamonds and spades
(by agreement the same pattern can continue on the 3 level)

These are both midchart because in the GCC everything except double and 2♣ must promise at least one known suit. That qualification is violated by the 2♦ bid in Woolsey, and by the 2♦, 2♥, 2♠, and 2NT bids in suction.

I should note that in California districts both these defenses are considered GCC, but that is a special exception that does not apply in the rest of the ACBL.

[awm]

It's also worth noting that there was a recent ACBL Bulletin article asking a number of top American players what their favorite NT defense was. The most popular (only one that got multiple mentions as I recall) was Woolsey. D'oh!

[JoAnneM]

What do you mean by the "West Coast"? I am president of District 20 (northern California, Oregon, Southern Washington, Hawaii) and just received an email from ACBL saying we are in violation for allowing all defenses to 1NT that would be considered mid-chart, at our Regionals.

I have come across pairs playing Suction during stratified Open Pairs events, because that is what I usually play in.

This must be a matter for the directors, have no idea why I am involved except that I suppose our BOD might have to take some sort of a vote if it comes to that.

[matmat]

JoAnneM, on Nov 7 2008, 09:36 PM, said:

What do you mean by the "West Coast"? I am president of District 20 (northern California, Oregon, Southern Washington, Hawaii) and just received an email from ACBL saying we are in violation for allowing all defenses to 1NT that would be considered mid-chart, at our Regionals.

I have come across pairs playing Suction during stratified Open Pairs events, because that is what I usually play in.

This must be a matter for the directors, have no idea why I am involved except that I suppose our BOD might have to take some sort of a vote if it comes to that.

wonder who complained...

[pclayton]

awm, on Nov 7 2008, 06:20 PM, said:

It's worth noting that on the West Coast, all defenses to 1NT are considered general chart.

Just D22 and D23 in Southern California.

[awm]

pclayton, on Nov 7 2008, 10:17 PM, said:

awm, on Nov 7 2008, 06:20 PM, said:

It's worth noting that on the West Coast, all defenses to 1NT are considered general chart.

Just D22 and D23 in Southern California.

Also definitely in D21 (northern CA). I haven't played in D20 except at nationals.

[PrecisionL]

Yes, 2♦ must have an anchor suit (for GCC), cannot be either major, otherwise it is mid-chart. This is well known by many tournament players. Suction is mid-chart also.

Larry

[LH2650]

JoAnneM, on Nov 7 2008, 09:36 PM, said:

I ..... just received an email from ACBL saying we are in violation for allowing all defenses to 1NT that would be considered mid-chart, at our Regionals.

If you read the ACBL Mid-Chart, you will find:

This chart (or any part) may apply to any sectionally or regionally rated event or tournament at sponsor’s option provided that this has been included in tournament advertising. (The requirement for advertising does not extend to use in Flt. A or high brackets of KOs.)

If you read the fine print at the bottom of the flyer for the D20 Reno Regional, you will find that this option has been selected for some events.

So I don't see how you are in violation of ACBL policy.

[fromageGB]

My favourite is Vertigo , a new one, not well known at the moment, but used in the UK. The idea is based upon the fact that with most defences with 2 suiters, the major is known but the minor is not, and cannot be found lower than the 3 level, and even then there may not be a fit. Another disadvantage with all other defences is that in 2 suited hands, the length of the major is not known. There is a world of a difference between a 4 card major and a 5, in a 2 suited hand, and Vertigo distinguishes them.

For one suited hands, 2♥, 2♠, 3♣, 3♦ are natural. The other calls are 2 suited.

2NT = both minors
2♣ = clubs and a 5 card major
2♦ = diamonds and a 5 card major

With these, already partner knows what the minor is, and can pass if appropriate. Otherwise, in response to the 2♣ or 2♦ she can bid her cheapest 3 card major. Overcaller will pass that with that 5 card suit of course. If not, he corrects 2♥ to 2♠ and advancer decides the contract accordingly. If advancer had replied 2♠ then overcaller with hearts corrects to the minor, but will bid 2NT if he has tolerance for the other minor, to enable partner to play there with length.

So with a 5 card major, you know the minor before passing the level of 2 of the major, and usually play in the best fit at the 2 level.

Obviously there can always be misfits in any system, so partner has to use discretion. With no tolerance for the known minor she may bid hearts with a doubleton, rather than with a 3 card suit.

This leaves 2 suited hands with a minor and a 4 card major, or both majors. These are shown by double.

X = both majors, or a minor and a 4 card major.

In reply to this :

2♣ denies a 4 card major.
2♦ shows 4 spades (denies 4 hearts).
2♥ shows 4 hearts (may also have spades).

In response to this, overcaller usually simply bids his 5 card suit.
So over :
2♣ - he passes with 5, bids 2♦ with 5, or his 5 card major
2♦ - he bids spades if he has those, or course, else passes with 5 diamonds, else bids 2♥. Having denied spades, this shows 5 clubs, so advancer can then bid the right contract.
2♥ - he passes with that suit, else bids 2♠. Over 2♠, advancer passes with that suit, else bids 3♣ for pass or correct.

Again, in these sequences starting with a double, you often get to play in 2 of a minor if there is no major fit.

If advancer makes any other bid than the above, then this is to play.
If overcaller initially passes, this is natural :-)

We play the same in 4th seat if it is passed round.

Give this a try, it may seem a little more complicated than most, but it really is worth it. And great fun, too.

[benlessard]

Its a must to know wich suit is longer if you like to get in with borderline 5/4 however there is better setup than vertigo. My favorite for example is.


X= 5M and other suit maybe both M

2C= 5C+ other suit (maybe both m if you like)
2D= 5D +4M

The idea is that 5M+4m are less suceptible to preemption then 4M+5m. Also what you want is that

(1Nt)-----2D------(Z)--------3D is more frequent, if 2D show 5D instead of just 4D.

[mike777]

I can live with modified dont:
x=majors or long minor
2c=c and other
2d=d and other
2h=hearts
2s=spades

[glen]

mike777, on Nov 8 2008, 09:42 PM, said:

2c=c and other
2d=d and other

From this, and Benlessard's (how bout those Leafs?) post, do you like the above or
2c=c and major
2d=d and major
or
2c=c and other
2d=d and major

[mike777]

glen, on Nov 8 2008, 09:44 PM, said:

mike777, on Nov 8 2008, 09:42 PM, said:

2c=c and other
2d=d and other

From this, and Benlessard's (how bout those Leafs?) post, do you like the above or
2c=c and major
2d=d and major
or
2c=c and other
2d=d and major

glen to be more specific I should say....2d = d and higher but...in any case


I need to just play better

[JoAnneM]

"wonder who complained..."

the Bay Area


Evidently there is some minor power struggle going on at ACBL and this issue is just a small part of that. So, I am not going to worry about it anymore, but thanks for all the very interesting responses.

I did check our Reno flyer and the notice is right there, thanks to the person who pointed that out to me.

[hrothgar]

Hi Joanne

Couple quick comments:

The ACBL's GCC reads as follows:

Quote

The conventions listed below must be allowed in all ACBL sanctioned tournament play (other than in events with an upper restriction of 20 or fewer masterpoints and events for which the ACBL conditions of contest state otherwise) and at club-level events with multiple-site overall masterpoint awards. Clubs have full authority to regulate conventions in games conducted solely at their clubs.

Note that this specifically requires that players be allowed to use a specific set of conventions in ACBL sanctioned tournament play. One could argue that tournament organizers have the option to sanction additional conventions that aren't listed as part of the GCC.

(Of course, given that we're talking about the ACBL I'm quite sure that folks can find any number of contradictory regulations)

[fromageGB]

benlessard, on Nov 9 2008, 02:05 AM, said:

(1Nt)-----2D------(Z)--------3D is more frequent, if 2D show 5D instead of just 4D.

This is certainly true, but I'm not happy with the sequence
(1NT) X (p) 2♦
(p) 2M
because if overcaller bids his 5 card spade suit and there is no way of knowing whether his other suit is a better fit. Advancer may be say 2452 shape, and you could miss the 4/4 heart fit. If he bids 2♥ then of course opener will have the clubs, so you are now playing in 3♠. Too high.
If overcaller bids his 5 card heart suit then again you don't know whether the other suit is spades or clubs.
If the overcaller simply bids 2♥ even if spades are longer, then again you can miss the best major fit.

[benlessard]

Quote

because if overcaller bids his 5 card spade suit and there is no way of knowing whether his other suit is a better fit. Advancer may be say 2452 shape, and you could miss the 4/4 heart fit. If he bids 2♥ then of course opener will have the clubs, so you are now playing in 3♠.

You never play at the 3 level unless you want to.

if advanced is

2452 he will respond 2D

opener will pass with 4D and 5M, will bid 2H with both M or with 5H & 4C and will bid 2S with 5S and 4C.

[blackshoe]

The regulations for ACBL sanctioned Tournaments (Sectionals and Regionals) are simple: the GCC must be allowed (with the exceptions Hrothgar notes above); the Mid-Chart or parts thereof may be allowed provided the prerequisites mentioned upthread by LH2560 are met. As far as I know, no subdivision of the ACBL has the authority to call (some) Mid-Chart conventions "General Chart". Mid-chart conventions are mid-chart, willy-nilly.

David Stevenson has some nine pages of defenses to 1NT on his web site.