[jillybean]

Scoring: MP

1♣ (P) 1♥ (3♦)
?

---

[Fluffy]

support double looks really fine, take out double is ok as well if that's your agreement

[Echognome]

Double - Meaning takeout for me.

[Phil]

I think the usual meaning of double at this level is 'cards', but if its takeout, thats my call.

[Jlall]

double

[jillybean]

We play support doubles thru 2♠, no votes for pass and hope partner can reopen?

[karlson]

jillybean, on Aug 26 2009, 03:44 PM, said:

We play support doubles thru 2♠, no votes for pass and hope partner can reopen?

I think that's the wrong way around.

Double describes your shape very well, and partner will likely know what suit to play in, whereas if partner reopens with double, we're going to be guessing. The biggest danger of double is that our hand is not really good enough, and we could catch partner with the worst hand ever and just be too high, so in a sense, if we pass, we're really hoping partner can't reopen.

Besides, why should partner balance if he's looking at a mediocre hand with some diamond length?

[Cascade]

Double whatever it means (except penalty)

[cherdanno]

Double, takeout.

[nigel_k]

If this kind of problem had a solution then people would still be happy playing penalty doubles in this situation. But it doesn't and they aren't.

[pooltuna]

jillybean, on Aug 26 2009, 05:53 PM, said:

Scoring: MP

1♣ (P) 1♥ (3♦)
?

---

3♥ is barely tolerable and probably the best choice unless partner has a habit of hanging you then pass

[the hog]

X. 3H is not tolerable. Pass is worse.

[andy_h]

X for takeout seems perfect. Although it's not ideal given that one of our aces is in the singleton which is not pulling its full weight, but our 5431 and AKAK's compensate for it. Sometimes partner has diamond length or some balanced hand and may not have a suitable hand for a re-opening bid/double. Putting it another way, we have a decent hand, shortage in RHO's suit with 3card support for partner so doubling now will help partner greatly.

[jillybean]

Scoring: MP

1♣ (P) 1♥ (3♦)
X (P)

---

Here's the full hand, is 3♠ forcing?

[gnasher]

jillybean, on Aug 27 2009, 06:58 AM, said:

Here's the full hand, is 3♠ forcing?

No - responder has to be able to bid something with a 4-4 6-count.

With 4-4 in the majors and enough for game, responder should bid 4♦, choice of games. If opener bids 4♥, responder might either pass or convert to 5♣; neither is terribly appealing.

If 4♦ would show a slam try, I suppose responder has to jump to 4♠ after the double. That will work OK if opener has four spades, but presumably some opening hands with 3-3 in the majors will pass 4♠, which won't be great.

[rd6789]

I usually play support X to 2H only and X here for t/o and that is what I woudl bid - over that North can't bid 3S - that is too weak so 4S or 4D depending on style - I think 4D probably shows a stronger hand so 4S - if it's a 4-3 fit partner will have compensatign values and my C look good

[mcphee]

Seems after dble for t/o responder should bid 4S as it is obvious the opening hand does not hold 4H and likely has 4S. I suppose C could play better especially if partner is 3-3-1-6. I feel bidding 4D will not show 4S and is too aggressive an action. For example should you advance with 4D what are you doing when partner bids 4H. exactly what would happen with the hand they hold?

Support dbles are not normally used at this level, most pairs using it through 2H, some through 2NT when partner makes a 2/1. Using support here would be highly unusual treatment.

[ONEferBRID]

mcphee, on Aug 27 2009, 07:10 AM, said:

Seems after dble for t/o responder should bid 4S as it is obvious the opening hand does not hold 4H and likely has 4S. I suppose C could play better especially if partner is 3-3-1-6. I feel bidding 4D will not show 4S and is too aggressive an action. For example should you advance with 4D what are you doing when partner bids 4H. exactly what would happen with the hand they hold?

Support dbles are not normally used at this level, most pairs using it through 2H, some through 2NT when partner makes a 2/1. Using support here would be highly unusual treatment.

DBL .... called a "Competitive" DBL here according to:

Richard Pavlicek --

“I want to compete further but I am not sure what to bid.” He says, "Certain basic conditions must always exist":

--Partner must have acted.
--Your side has not established a fit.
--Your side has not bid notrump.
--You did not pass the doubled suit at your last turn.
--A forcing auction does not exist.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I agree with Mcphee and the others that Opener does not have 4 cds Hts, but could have 3 cds; and 3S next by Responder is NF.
Responder has to bid 4S .
( I'd like to think 4D by Responder would mean 4s/5h and say: " you choose",
and 4H by Responder would be 5h but no 4s ).