[zzmiy]

Arguments about how national team must be selected became somewhat like holy-war in our NBO . So I'm just curious about how (and why) is it done in other places? (country/ how many stages/ pairs or teams compete / how many really strong pairs there're in NBO etc)

[paulg]

Sounds like you are from Scotland.

[zzmiy]

Quote

Sounds like you are from Scotland.

Can I treat it as a compliment to my english (or contrary )?

I'm from Belarus, so I'm more interested in small NBO's experience.

[jjbrr]

This doesn't answer your question, but some discussion about the US trials can be read here.

[Jlall]

I think ideally every country would have a teams trial of significant length. If that was impossible, I think selection would be fine in smaller countries that are not that deep. The benefit of smaller countries though is that usually the teams can travel to each other pretty easily since they're close. In USA I think selection would be awful because there is too much depth. I think pairs trials are always awful.

[Fluffy]

In Spain we always did team trials, latelly there is less and less teams trying, for beijing only 2 teams signed up :S.


For the ladies they have made a pairs cross IMP tornament, with 2 pairs qualifying since the best pair was suposed to play directly.

What happened with the ladies is that a sponsor reached a qualifying spot, and then the top pair has resigned and now the third pair will take the place :S.

At the ladies it doesn't matter much if its a team or 3 pairs, whatever happens they will come back talking badly of their team mates and probably their partner as well.

Before Elianna jumps at me for being sexist again, its not my impression, its my experience, all the international championship I've followed minimally it has finished the same way. If its a women's issue, or an spanish women's issue I don't know.

[Jlall]

Fluffy, on Feb 25 2010, 11:12 AM, said:

At the ladies it doesn't matter much if its a team or 3 pairs, whatever happens they will come back talking badly of their team mates and probably their partner as well.

oh god this is gonna get ugly

[paulg]

Scotland is an NBO with a relatively small talent pool. There are no professional players (all those play for England or USA) and there are probably four or five top pairs. Then there are another six pairs who think that they are one of the top 4 or 5 and are experienced in the trials process. Few of these pairs play outside Scotland, so over the last decade they can still beat the locals but are faring less well in international competition.

Our current selection process is guided by the 'open to all' principle. We have two stages.

Stage I is a weekend of pairs competition scored by Butler IMPs qualifying the top eight. About the top six pairs are exempted from Stage I.

Stage II is again for pairs. two weekends, 14 x 20 board matches, scored by Butler IMPs. The top two pairs are guaranteed selection, with the Committee picking the third (who must have played in the trial).

We currently use pairs trials as it is believed to encourage new talent and makes it easier for pairs to compete. There is no doubt that the top pairs would prefer team trials, as then they are only subject to the randomness of their team mates and not 'the field'. This may happen in the future.

All our documents explaining the trials are available on the website.

(You can get a feeling for our 'holy wars' by reading the comments on my blog when the selection policy has been mentioned - future trials and a selector's life, but I know you'll have had the same so no real need to read it)

[hanp]

In the Netherlands there is a selection of 5 or 6 pairs, and for every tournament a team of 3 pairs is picked by the coach. The seclection trains regularly together,
I don't know of any misgivings among the pairs.

[Aberlour10]

Although Poland counts to the big bridge nations, there are only few full time professionals. The system/way/format of the trials has been changed every year since the last medal for the team open in Göteborg... It seems it's impossible to find out the really optimal one.

Robert

[jjbrr]

Fluffy, on Feb 25 2010, 11:12 AM, said:

At the ladies it doesn't matter much if its a team or 3 pairs, whatever happens they will come back talking badly of their team mates and probably their partner as well.

Before Elianna jumps at me for being sexist again, its not my impression, its my experience, all the international championship I've followed minimally it has finished the same way. If its a women's issue, or an spanish women's issue I don't know.

[uday]

"In Spain we always did team trials, latelly there is less and less teams trying,"

Does the winning team get a subsidized ( free? ) trip somewhere? Or it is pay-as-you-go?

[inquiry]

I know this post was about off-line bridge, but since this weekend there will be a national qualifying event in the US for the 2010 FISU university games (the global university game will be face to face), I thought I might mention how the team that represents the US will be selected.....

It will be through winning an event played ONLINE on the BBO. Here is the details of the event... taken directly from the www.usbf.org web page.

Quote

The USBF team for the 2010 FISU University Games will be chosen in an online Team Trial played Feb. 27 & 28. To be eligible for the FISU, players must be US citizens, born between 1982 and 1992 and currently attending a US university or college or have completed a degree in 2009. The FISU Championship will be held Aug. 2-9 in Taiwan. Eight teams have entered the FISU trials. They will play a Round Robin to select 4 semi-finalists on Saturday, Feb. 27th and a semi-final and final on Sunday, Feb. 28th. Although Superchart methods were allowed for the FISU trials, any pair using a Superchart method had to complete an Advance Submission Form by January 28, and no one has done so. Therefore all of the players will use Midchart methods. Players must complete the USBF System Summary Form by Feb. 14th. To complete system forms, go to the teams list page and click on your name. That page is also the place to go to view other players' system information.

For security reasons, no kibitzers will be allowed during these Trials, however we will try to provide information about scores immediately after each Round Robin match and each segment of the KO matches. We will also post web vugraphs of the matches as soon as we can after they are completed

While you can not kibitz directly, as noted above you can see the result on the usbf webpage soon after each round to see how your favorite team/friends/enemies are doing. The teams with their BBO Names are listed below. When team members are also members of this forum, I have pointed it out in bold. One team has a nonplaying captain, who is also a member of this forum, so I list that team first.

Jlall - nonplaying capatin, over 12 thousand post
rogerclee - Member thousands of post
jjbrr - Member, hundreds of post
olien - Member, dozens of post
kdwyer
             
karlson - Active member, hundreds of post
hackenbush - member
threenobob
dylena

rwbarton - Member
sflicht - Member, joined in 2010
alya             
roed314
                 
jmarriott3 member with no post
goon1407             
shabambu32             
bballrace             

anamtebha  member with no post           
dude2010
jourdainp             
jas123             


yale12
alovejoy
jbitts
jpines


bdelfs
bradhaas
samois98
top1214


49erfn
mity_rab
d9tiger
teamllama

[Free]

In Belgium it changes every year. Last year they started with pairs selections, winning pairs chould choose their team mates from the other pairs, all of a sudden some pairs didn't want to play together anymore,... It was ridiculous.

Now they changed it to selections of teams with 3 pairs, and all pairs have to play 2/3 of the deals. If you only have 2 pairs you can't compete. It's definitely an improvement, but I have mixed feelings about the fact that teams should consist of 3 pairs. Belgium never gets good results, so it won't matter much anyway.

[Fluffy]

uday, on Feb 25 2010, 05:36 PM, said:

"In Spain we always did team trials, latelly there is less and less teams trying,"

Does the winning team get a subsidized ( free? ) trip somewhere? Or it is pay-as-you-go?

Normally the NBO charges teams to sing up for the trial and then pays the entry fee of the teams and nothing else. Sometimes it contributes with plane tickets but normally nothing.

For example in Bejing the open team had to pay around 2000€ each to play there, (all except me because I was also a member of the youth team sponsored by WBF).

That's another reason why we will hardly reach bermuda bowl, best players don't want to pay to play (even less given that they lose 2 weeks of income by doing so), and even when we mix a decent team we are always in the cheapest hotel possible about 15 km away from the playing zone. Wich has a bigger impact on your play than you might think.

[PeterGill]

This year Australia has Pairs Trials for our Open and Women's Teams. The fields are at http://www.abf.com.au/events/playoffs/ with the top 3 pairs becoming the team.

The last time we did well was 2007 when we had Teams Trials and came 5th in the Bermuda Bowl.

[paulg]

Fluffy, on Feb 26 2010, 11:31 AM, said:

uday, on Feb 25 2010, 05:36 PM, said:

"In Spain we always did team trials, latelly there is less and less teams trying,"

Does the winning team get a subsidized ( free? ) trip somewhere?  Or it is pay-as-you-go?

Normally the NBO charges teams to sing up for the trial and then pays the entry fee of the teams and nothing else. Sometimes it contributes with plane tickets but normally nothing.

For example in Bejing the open team had to pay around 2000€ each to play there, (all except me because I was also a member of the youth team sponsored by WBF).

That's another reason why we will hardly reach bermuda bowl, best players don't want to pay to play (even less given that they lose 2 weeks of income by doing so), and even when we mix a decent team we are always in the cheapest hotel possible about 15 km away from the playing zone. Wich has a bigger impact on your play than you might think.

In Scotland, for the European Championships, the NBO hopes to pay the entry fee, accommodation and most of the travel costs for the Open and Women's teams. This is funded through one congress, a few simultaneous pairs and the British team championships so the NBO members do not actually contribute.

For events such as the Olympiad, the entry fee is paid but most of the other costs are down to the team.

It costs to play in the trials, but these are run at a small loss currently.

[Roupoil]

In France, it seems to change every year also. This year (for the next European Championships), there is a team trial for Open, Women and Senior teams. The Open trial is a quite lenghty one, with 18 teams competing but teams entering at various stages. The four best ones (in my opinion the ones which really have a real chance to win the trial) begin in the round of 8, and the last three rounds are matches of 120 to 180 deals each. For the seniors, there are 8 teams competing, and only 4 for the Women. There has been problems with the Women trials recently, and it seems our best players (the ones that won the Venice Cup in 2005 and finished third last year) won't be competing in this trial once again...

[hrothgar]

Fluffy, on Feb 25 2010, 07:12 PM, said:

At the ladies it doesn't matter much if its a team or 3 pairs, whatever happens they will come back talking badly of their team mates and probably their partner as well.

At least this is happening with the Spanish team.

Its not like any team from there would ever be in contention or even impact the results measurably...

[For the record, this should be interpreted as a comment regarding Fluffy's post, and not any kind of slam against any of the team from Spain]

[Gerben42]

In Germany, last time's team plays as long as it is successful (there is a precise definition for this). If not, there is a qualification tournament (teams). The last time there was this kind of tourney was 2005. This was actually the first ever Vugraph event from Germany

For the seniors, a pairs qualifying took place last week. 3 pairs won, don't know how they will do yet at this point of course.

For the ladies' team, one pair is seeded (guess who). The 2nd pair seems to be Pony + partner, the 3rd pair varies and I have no idea how this is decided. I guess also some intangibles are relevant, as there is no qualifying.