[1axbycz1]

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At some tables E overcalled in ♦, some used michaels to show the red 2-suiter. Sitting south, I played the hand for +480.
4S+2=480 at 5 tables, 5Dx-2=500 at the other 1 table. Nobody bid the slam. N/S had 25 points in total but the slam is cold. Why? Is is because of the double fit? I evaluated my hand as simply invitational here. N is a minimum opener.

So now, how to bid the hand
a) if the opps simply pass throughout
if the opps compete in ♦

[the hog]

I don't know if I would get to 6, however the 2S bid by Nth is appalling and shows no hand evaluation at all. It is worth 3S or, 3D if you play mini splinters.

[1axbycz1]

true. i didnt bid the 2♠, my partner did.
anyway, if N really bid 3♠, S is most likely to make a game raise, with the same result.

[Cyberyeti]

1axbycz1, on 2010-November-19, 03:44, said:

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At some tables E overcalled in ♦, some used michaels to show the red 2-suiter. Sitting south, I played the hand for +480.
4S+2=480 at 5 tables, 5Dx-2=500 at the other 1 table. Nobody bid the slam. N/S had 25 points in total but the slam is cold. Why? Is is because of the double fit? I evaluated my hand as simply invitational here. N is a minimum opener.

So now, how to bid the hand
a) if the opps simply pass throughout
if the opps compete in ♦

2♠ is a serious underbid, this is not a minimum opener, a minimum-ish opener is A10xx, xx, x, KQ10xxx, bid 3♠ or 4♠, game is potentially on opposite ♠KQxxx and out. In fact if 3♦ would be a splinter here for you bid that.

I presume this is a short club, this may be a large part of your issue here in recognising the double fit, but what would 3♣ show over 2♠ by your methods ?

If you play the 3♦ splinter, this is easy.

1♣-1♠-3♦-4♣-4N-5♠-6♠

Otherwise 1♣-1♠-3♠-4♣-4N-5♠-6♠ is plausible.

We would bid (opening a 4 card club and playing 2♦ as our relay in an inverted minor sequence which we use on most inv or better hands but not this one):

1♣-2♣-3♠(6♣-4♠ GF)-4♠-4N-5♠-6♠

In competition:

1♣-(1♦)-? this is a style decision, some people bid 1♠ (others guarantee 5 with this), some X, we bid 2♣ still inverted, some people will bid 2♦. Without knowing what you bid first up it's difficult to suggest an auction.

Our auction will proceed completely unhindered if opps bid 1♦/3♦, just make the same bids as above.

[1axbycz1]

I presume this is a short club, this may be a large part of your issue here in recognising the double fit, but what would 3♣ show over 2♠ by your methods ?

I use that as long suit trial bid.

As for my minor suit openings, 1m promises 3, 1♣ with 3-3, 1♦ with 4-4 or 5-5, else longer minor.

[gwnn]

1♣-1♠
3♠-4♣
4N-5♠
6♠

pretty routine...

1♣-(1♥)-x-(2♥)
3♠*-etc same

* if playing that this is a strong raise.

If opponents (clearly from another galaxy) compete in diamonds, I imagine it would go

1♣-(1♦)-1♠-(3♦)
4♦-p-4♥*-p
4N etc
*artificial blame transfer bid

[Zelandakh]

The problem is the 2S bid. 3D is pretty clear for North's rebid - the hand is worth somewhere in the 17+-18 range. When South evaluates over the splinter they have 11 working hcp opposite ~14hcp, enough to look for the slam. So cue-bidding clubs is clear and the rest follows naturally. A possible auction might be
1C - 1S; 3D - 4C; 4H - 4N; 5H - 6S.

[Cyberyeti]

1axbycz1, on 2010-November-19, 04:47, said:

I presume this is a short club, this may be a large part of your issue here in recognising the double fit, but what would 3♣ show over 2♠ by your methods ?

I use that as long suit trial bid.

As for my minor suit openings, 1m promises 3, 1♣ with 3-3, 1♦ with 4-4 or 5-5, else longer minor.

Well You might give partner one of the biggest wake up calls of his life then, 1♣-1♠-2♠-3♣-4N is not an everyday auction, but would be justified here, it looks like partner has the A♣ and this makes your hand vast.

[kenrexford]

I agree with Cyb that, barring splinter 3-bids, the practical might be the jump raise followed by a 4♣ cue. Almost good enough for a 4-level splinter, but practical 3-raise seems better. The mini-splinter really works nice here, though.

[nige1]

North ♠ AT32 ♥ AJ ♦2 ♣KQT952
South ♠ KQJ8 ♥762 ♦87 ♣ AJ63

6♠ is a miracle. The latest version of Tsetse club fails to get there
1♦ - 1♠
3♦ - 3♥
4♦ - 4♠
End

1♦ = 9-15. 4+ ♣ or 4+ ♦. No 4+major unless upper range.
3♦ = Mini-splinter (game try).
3♥ = Help?
4♦ = 2 keys counting major kings as aces.

Opponents are forbidden from interfering in our delicate sequences. We reward them by bidding and rebidding their suits

[iviehoff]

nige1, on 2010-November-19, 07:35, said:

6♠ is a miracle.

5 loser opposite 7 loser, double fit. Not such a miracle. Losing trick count isn't ideal for slam bidding, because (1) you need a source of tricks, and losing trick count doesn't realise when you run out of trumps for cross-ruffing (2) with this low number of losers the risk of duplication is high.

But with 12 aggregate losers and a double fit, there is something wrong if neither player realises that slam should be investigated.

[Fluffy]

3♠ is an underbid IMO.

I play 1♣-1♠-4♠ as 6♣-4♠ hand (I bid 2NT with 18-19 balanced).

After that south needs some faith to go on, since certainly having 2 quick losers in a red suit is possible, but if he cares to bid 4NT or 5♣ slam will be reached.