[JLOGIC]

**Disclaimer, intense video where real people get shot. If you don't want to see this, do not click the link**

Saw this on 2+2, freaking intense:



lol @ the woman, and the main guy antagonizing the shooter. Good job to the other guy. Also, be sure the click the ending when you're done.

[Phil]

Love the DB trying to reason with the guy with the gun. If there was any doubt about who was going to get shot (or shot and missed as the case was) that was settled quickly. And the Ruth Buzzi clone slapping the guy with her handbag - too funny.

About 10 years ago, there was a fatal shooting at a Riverside, CA city council meeting. As a result, most council chambers were fitted with some kind of guard rail that prevents people from the audience from getting too close to councilmembers.

[JLOGIC]

Phil, on 2010-December-16, 13:07, said:

And the Ruth Buzzi clone slapping the guy with her handbag - too funny.

Lol I mean what was she thinking? We are laughing but she endangered the life of everyone in there, what an idiot.

[mgoetze]

The comments on the second video about how things would be better if everyone ran around if a gun are incredibly stupid and typically american. Do they seriously believe it would have made this situation any better if one of the school board dudes pulled a gun out of his jacket and started a shooting contest?

OTOH, things like this seem to take place much less frequently in countries with strict gun control laws.

And LOL at the German politicians who, after any school massacre, demand that violent video games be banned. The connections to video games have been tenuous to non-existent in all of these cases. On the other hand, there has been a connection to gun hobbyist clubs every time (that's where the weapons came from). You'd think it would be obvious to ban the gun hobbyist clubs instead.

[Bbradley62]

Phil, on 2010-December-16, 13:07, said:

About 10 years ago, there was a fatal shooting at a Riverside, CA city council meeting. As a result, most council chambers were fitted with some kind of guard rail that prevents people from the audience from getting too close to councilmembers.

So, if you intend to shoot the Riverside council members, you should go to the shooting range first, to practice shooting from a few yards away?

[Phil]

Bbradley62, on 2010-December-16, 14:46, said:

So, if you intend to shoot the Riverside council members, you should go to the shooting range first, to practice shooting from a few yards away?

?

What a pathetic attempt at humor.

[JLOGIC]

mgoetze, on 2010-December-16, 13:38, said:

The comments on the second video about how things would be better if everyone ran around if a gun are incredibly stupid and typically american. Do they seriously believe it would have made this situation any better if one of the school board dudes pulled a gun out of his jacket and started a shooting contest?

OTOH, things like this seem to take place much less frequently in countries with strict gun control laws.

And LOL at the German politicians who, after any school massacre, demand that violent video games be banned. The connections to video games have been tenuous to non-existent in all of these cases. On the other hand, there has been a connection to gun hobbyist clubs every time (that's where the weapons came from). You'd think it would be obvious to ban the gun hobbyist clubs instead.

lol at using youtube comments for your view of "typically american."

[mgoetze]

JLOGIC, on 2010-December-16, 15:51, said:

lol at using youtube comments for your view of "typically american."

I've seen this line of "reasoning" in many other places than just YouTube comments.

[blackshoe]

So? That doesn't mean it's "typically American".

[kenberg]

I like to think that I am a fairly typical American. And even worse, I have no plans to correct that deficiency.

For the record, I have never killed anyone. Actually, I think that is fairly typical for Americans.

[Hanoi5]

Was he Anon? Legion?

[mikeh]

I agree....or maybe it's my age (advanced) that makes me think that youtube comments may not be reflective of the typical american.

But check out msnbc's story and the 1400+ comments...msnbc is viewed in the US as left of centre (it would probably be seen as conservative in most western democracies). There are a handful of posters arguing for greater gun control, but they attract lots of impassioned 'rebuttal'. Some argue, with apparent sincerity, that had the school board members been armed, the incident would never have occurred! I guess they overlooked the part where the gunman announced, early on, that he was going to die....I guess they are also unfamiliar with the concept of suicide by cop....which is a very real phenonomen...I know because I cross-examined one of the leading US police use of force experts in a trial a year ago.

Others argue that 'an armed society is a polite society'. I guess they think americans are politer, as a society, than the Japanese?

Or that the UK, or Germany or France have far higher gun homicide rates than the US?

And why do so many advocates of gun ownership argue that because they wouldn't ever act irrationally, no-one else would either? Many ordinary people act irrationally....in fact, we all act irrationally at times. Some of us get drunk or stoned. Some of us get depressed. Some of us suffer road rage. Some of us feel we've been insulted. Only an idiot would argue that emotionally disturbed or intoxicated individuals should be permitted to carry a loaded handgun, but the gun supporters always argue 'it's not the tool, it's the fool' or 'guns don't kill people, people kill people'.

No: people with guns kill people. And they do so far more often than people without guns do.

Or don't any of you gun-proponents actually look at the statistics of gun and murder rates in western democracies correlated against gun ownership? With the exception of Switzerland, which is a special case for cultural, and historical reasons, the tighter the gun control, the lower the murder rate....not perhaps an exact match but certainly a significant correlation.

[blackshoe]

The Japanese are polite, as a society, because historically, not being polite to the wrong person would result in your head rolling off your neck.

New York City has the toughest gun control laws in the nation — and a murder rate that may not be the highest, but it's up there.

Have you read Point Blank Mike?

[cherdano]

JLOGIC, on 2010-December-16, 15:51, said:

lol at using youtube comments for your view of "typically american."

I do think it is "typical American" that many Americans react to such shootings by thinking "I wish someone would have had a gun to stop him" rather than "I wish this guy wouldn't have had a gun". This doesn't mean that all Americans think so, it does not even mean that a majority of Americans think so; it just means that among Americans, significantly more react this way than in other countries.

Such statements are always generalizations, but that doesn't mean there isn't some truth to them.

[hotShot]

It may be true that the victims could have defended themselves if they had guns, but I find the argument much more convincing that if the villain has no gun, he won't shoot anyone.

[mgoetze]

cherdano, on 2010-December-17, 01:12, said:

I do think it is "typical American" that many Americans react to such shootings by thinking "I wish someone would have had a gun to stop him" rather than "I wish this guy wouldn't have had a gun". This doesn't mean that all Americans think so, it does not even mean that a majority of Americans think so; it just means that among Americans, significantly more react this way than in other countries.

Thanks Arend, if I could afford it I would hire you as my official interpreter.

[blackshoe]

hotShot, on 2010-December-17, 02:52, said:

It may be true that the victims could have defended themselves if they had guns, but I find the argument much more convincing that if the villain has no gun, he won't shoot anyone.

Guns exist. So long as they exist, some people will have them (legally or not). So long as some people have them, it is folly to deny others that right.

[gwnn]

BTW, what should they have told him? If they don't tell him anything, he will probably shoot them, if they try to calm him down they will come across as patronising and he will shoot them, if they confront him he will probably get mad and shoot them, I think talking to him relatively honestly while keeping their calm was more or less the best choice. Any ideas?

[y66]

gwnn, on 2010-December-17, 08:15, said:

BTW, what should they have told him? If they don't tell him anything, he will probably shoot them, if they try to calm him down they will come across as patronising and he will shoot them, if they confront him he will probably get mad and shoot them, I think talking to him relatively honestly while keeping their calm was more or less the best choice. Any ideas?

I thought those board members handled the situation pretty well. If I had my wits about me, I think I would just try to keep the guy talking about his problems and his family as long as possible and what he thinks the possible solutions are. If that doesn't work, maybe ask him to explain what that diagram was all about, where did he learn to draw like that, who were his influences, etc.

That "typical American" comment and subsequent comments are surprising to me. It is definitely typical of some Americans to respond that way. But hardly "typically American".

[Fluffy]

blackshoe, on 2010-December-17, 07:57, said:

Guns exist. So long as they exist, some people will have them (legally or not). So long as some people have them, it is folly to deny others that right.

yeah and everyone has the rights to have nuclear missiles in his home for the same reasoning lol.