[Phil]

---

West deals.

Lots of tricks here. Can you conduct a reasonable auction to 7?

[cherdano]

2C 3S
4C 4N
5C 5N
6D 7N

I guess East might as well bid 7N a round earlier.

[han]

Or perhaps:

1H - 1S
3C - 3S
3NT - 4D (slam try in spades)
4H - 4NT
etc.

[Phil]

Cherdano - Surprised you'd open this 2♣. Seems a tad skinny to me with this honor dispersion, but it works great here. Does 3♠ show specifically a semi-solid suit for you?

Han - 3N? This could play ugly opposite some boring hands with six spades.

We started with a different auction - I'm not crazy with the way either of us bid it, but I'll save it for later.

[mtvesuvius]

I'd bid:

1♥ - 1♠
3♣ - 3♠
4♠ - 4N etc...

I think the West hand is worth a 4♠ call, but 3N could easily be right.

[xxhong]

1H 1S
3C 3S
3N 4H(transfer to S)
4S 4N(RKC)
5C 5N
6D(DK) 7NT

If you start from 2C
2C 3S (set up trumps)
4N 5C
5D 5N
6D(DK) 7D(DQ)
7NT

[OleBerg]

han, on 2011-February-11, 16:27, said:

Or perhaps:

1H - 1S
3C - 3S
3NT - 4D (slam try in spades)
7♠

FYP

[nigel_k]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-February-11, 17:02, said:

I'd bid:

1♥ - 1♠
3♣ - 3♠
4♠ - 4N etc...

I think the West hand is worth a 4♠ call, but 3N could easily be right.

Agree with this, except I doubt 3NT will be right very often. 4♦ is an option for West if it is understood as agreeing spades.

[dake50]

Keys-ask then specific K by East after West shows big?

[Rossoneri]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-February-11, 17:02, said:

I'd bid:

1♥ - 1♠
3♣ - 3♠
4♠ - 4N etc...

I think the West hand is worth a 4♠ call, but 3N could easily be right.

This sounds very reasonable.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Phil, on 2011-February-11, 16:12, said:

---

West deals.

Lots of tricks here. Can you conduct a reasonable auction to 7?

Apriori, I see that Responder would have to go RKC ( missing 4 key cards ? ) and then asking for specific K's which will tell him of the ♦ K .... allowing him to count to 13 tricks since HE is the only one who knows of the 8 card Sp suit.

But how can he go RKC without knowing about the sidesuit Ctrl situation?

If West opens 2C and East responds with a 3S-jump,
West may actually go 4NT ( RKC ) and stop in 6S after the K-ask .
He can only count to 12.

[mtvesuvius]

I'm quite confident that East would bid 7♠ if West confirmed all the keycards.

[MrAce]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-February-11, 19:58, said:

If West opens 2C and East respondes with a 3S-jump,
West may actually go 4NT ( RKC ) and stop in 6S after the K-ask .
He can only count to 12.

And what would u bid with an AQJxxxxx suit when pd asks kings for grandslam after opening 2♣ and saying all keycards are present ? Cmon now...


@ Phil; I think it is easy when open 2♣, but i doubt it is as easy as Adam's scenario if opened 1♥. Sometimes 1♥ and 3♣ bidder has ♥ and ♣ hcps

K AKQxx Jxx AKxx To bid 4 NT after 4♠ raise, will not be as easy as in forums seeing 2 hands imo. Especially when pd failed to bid 4♦ (whatever it shows)

I wonder if 4♦ by west over 3♠ would help more, or does it mean something else ?

[Phil]

At the table you might not like our auction: 1♥ - 1♠ - 3♣ - 5♠ (which no one has mentioned) - 6♠.

I think 5♠ shows more along the lines of AKQxxxx x xx xxx but it can't be that far off the mark but I accept that this could be a silly spot if partner is AKQxx + AKQxx in his suits and no diamond card.
Even looking at the ♠K and those controls he really can't bid 7 since he needs 8 spades + something else.

Starting with 3♠ seems more sensible to me. As stated above, I implied this shows 6 so I think 3N is out. How well is it going to play opposite AQxxxx and out? 3N does allow a painless 4♦ - 4♥ (last train showing a diamond card) etc.as Han suggests.

To me the question is should the 22 count make a forward move via 4♦ over 3♠ with K♠ stiff and I think its close. But couldn't 4♦ be Kx AKJxx xx AKQx? If West just raises, I don't think East can key card off the diamond suit and 7 is a long way off.

[MrAce]

We may be actually looking at the smaller picture when focusing on West's bid imo. I am not sure but 1♠ and then 3♠ with East hand seems wrong to me. Depending on your style, East shd either bid 4♠ over 1♥, or 1♠ followd by 4♠.(or 3♠ over 1♥ if available, not in my system though)

1♠ followed by 3♠ looks like more of a investigation bid with less quality 6+♠. Basically i like East to show 7-8 cards ♠ , since learning what opener has can be pain in the but even if possible with different hands.

Phil, on 2011-February-12, 09:40, said:

But couldn't 4♦ be Kx AKJxx xx AKQx? If West just raises, I don't think East can key card off the diamond suit and 7 is a long way off.

Shouldn't be. I dont think bidding 4♦ or 4♠ should be about your range between 18 and 21. Take out 2 queens from west's hand, grand is still there as cold as ice.

[Cyberyeti]

1♥-1♠-2N-3♠-4♣-4♠-4N-5♦-5♥-6♦-6♥-7♠.

2N=GF unbalanced
3♠=7 or more ♠ as there's a more or less mandatory 3♣ relay
4♣=cue agreeing spades
4♠=no red suit A/K
4N=keycard
5♦=1/4
5♥=Q♠?
6♦=yes and the Q♦ since I've denied the K, and not the K♣
6♥=anything extra
7♠=yes, 8th spade

Playing in spades in case you're a trick short and have to ruff the hearts good.

[xxhong]

5S is a huge underbid IMO. What would your poor partner bid with something like - AKxxx AKx Axxxx?
RKC with this hand is very practical. Raising 3S to 4S with stiff K is really not my cup of tea. Of course, you may play some 4S when 3NT goes down sometimes. However, it distorts your shape and sometimes, you really should play in 3NT. Your partner may hold some useful cards in hearts or clubs to help you to make 3NT sometimes.
Still, even if you decide to bid 5S, opener can still cuebid to try for 7. Here, 5NT should show odd number of KC and 6 level cuebids should show even number of KC.

Phil, on 2011-February-12, 09:40, said:

At the table you might not like our auction: 1♥ - 1♠ - 3♣ - 5♠ (which no one has mentioned) - 6♠.

I think 5♠ shows more along the lines of AKQxxxx x xx xxx but it can't be that far off the mark but I accept that this could be a silly spot if partner is AKQxx + AKQxx in his suits and no diamond card.
Even looking at the ♠K and those controls he really can't bid 7 since he needs 8 spades + something else.

Starting with 3♠ seems more sensible to me. As stated above, I implied this shows 6 so I think 3N is out. How well is it going to play opposite AQxxxx and out? 3N does allow a painless 4♦ - 4♥ (last train showing a diamond card) etc.as Han suggests.

To me the question is should the 22 count make a forward move via 4♦ over 3♠ with K♠ stiff and I think its close. But couldn't 4♦ be Kx AKJxx xx AKQx? If West just raises, I don't think East can key card off the diamond suit and 7 is a long way off.

[whereagles]

2♣ 4♠ (good, long suit)
6♠

No 7 here. Maybe with pet system, but not with standard methods.

[Zelandakh]

1♣ = 15+ nat/bal or 18+ any
... 1♥ = 9+, 4+ spades, if bal or 3-suited then 4+ hearts, GF
1♠ = relay
... 2♦ = 1-suited
2♥ = relay
... 3♦ = 8+ spades, 0-1 hearts
3♥ = relay
... 3♠ = min
4♣ = relay
... 4♦ = 1 heart
4♥ = relay
... 4N = 2 controls
5♣ = relay
... 5♥ = spade control, no diamond control
5N = Q ask
... 6♣ = no ♣Q
6♠ = ♠Q?
... 7♦ = yes, and ♦Q
7N

Of course West could just RKCB after learning of the 8 card suit but the relay auction is so much more fun.

[pooltuna]

Does not anyone start off with 2NT or possibly a 2NT rebid after a 2♣ opening?