[guelphdad]

As dealer I see:
♠AKxxxx
♥x
♦xxxxxx

I know rule of 20 says I can open the hand in first seat, but I opted to pass, see what partner bid.

Auction went P-P-1♦-4♥

At that point I was torn on whether to bid spades, but knowing partner had less than four but guaranteed three diamonds I bid 5.

a) am I right to not open the hand and see what fit I had with partner?
b) RHO had ♥AKTxxxxx as it turns out, and I knew they weren't a flaky bidder

Five diamonds made.

For future though if I'm not facing that jump bid from opps, am I best to open or pass as I did?

Thanks

[mike777]

fwiw I would open 2s

[Quantumcat]

guelphdad, on 2011-May-04, 21:30, said:

As dealer I see:
♠AKxxxx
♥x
♦xxxxxx
...
For future though if I'm not facing that jump bid from opps, am I best to open or pass as I did?

No harm in opening, especially as you have spades, but you might come into difficulty later when your partner has a 13 or 14 count without a fit. You will probably end up in 3NT going down several, especially because it will be difficult to express the exact nature of your hand. It will be very difficult to stop in a partscore when partner has 13 or 14 misfitting HCP unless he is very understanding and sympathetic.

Depending on my seat and vulnerability, I would pass, or open 2♠, or 3♠.
In 1st seat not vul I would pass because there is simply no pre-empt I can make which partner won't take with several grains of salt, and we will miss any game we have. I might open 4♠, but that might mean going off a couple when 5♦ is cold.
In 2nd seat not vul I would open 3♠. Vul, 2♠. I must have a rock solid weak 2 for that seat and vul, which is what I have (actually it might not be good enough. I'd much rather have QJT962 than AK5432).

[guelphdad]

Thanks. yes first seat. second seat i would bid 2♠. Here i was worried about a fit with partner.

[JLOGIC]

I dropped outta HS so I don't know math but 6 + 6 + 7 is only 19, which does not meet the rule of 20.

Anyways, opening this hand at the 1 level is absurd, you should never be considering opening a 7 point hand at the 1 level.

[Free]

JLOGIC, on 2011-May-05, 00:30, said:

you should never be considering opening a 7 point hand at the 1 level.

Unless playing strong pass ofcourse, then you need to open most 7-counts at the 1 level.

Imo, if you pass first, you can safely bid 4♠. This should show ♦ support and gives opener choice of games (or more if he's strong).

[Hanoi5]

I would have opened 3♠ and responded 4♠ in the actual sequence. I'm not sure it shows diamonds though.

[the hog]

Free, on 2011-May-05, 02:04, said:

Unless playing strong pass ofcourse, then you need to open most 7-counts at the 1 level.

Imo, if you pass first, you can safely bid 4♠. This should show ♦ support and gives opener choice of games (or more if he's strong).

I agree with this.

[aguahombre]

mike777, on 2011-May-04, 21:31, said:

fwiw I would open 2s

Have done this a few times over the past 40 years. It seemed amusing at the time, but never really worked out well.

Agree with Free's post, mostly. But, opener doesn't need to be very strong for 7D to make, and we might not even get to six unless I blast.

[guelphdad]

JLOGIC, on 2011-May-05, 00:30, said:

I dropped outta HS so I don't know math but 6 + 6 + 7 is only 19, which does not meet the rule of 20.

Ooops you're right. i was counting it as two quick tricks so bumping it up slightly. Yes i didn't think opening was right, and the jump to 4♥ certainly took bidding options out for this hand. Was wondering more in general what to do if i got a similar hand.

Thanks for the feedback.

[mtvesuvius]

Several points here:

1. Opening this hand on the one level is a clear mistake. I'd open 3♠ or 4♠ (if W/R or maybe W/W in 1st seat).
2. Opening this hand 2♠ is even worse than opening it 1♠.
3. We are NEVER playing 3N on this hand, so although partner may have a misfit, we will be playing in a trump suit.
4. The opponents usually will be in the auction on hands like these, so planning accordingly is a very good idea.
5. 4♠ by a passed hand has to show at least some diamond tolerance, although certainly not 6 card support.

[Phil]

I would open this hand 4♠ at all colors except r/w.

[FrancesHinden]

I don't mind not opening the hand (you don't tell us the vulnerability which has a big impact on the choice of pre-empt). However, after P P 1D 4H I would have bid a slam. 5D is a huge understatement of the hand. I like 5S if partner will understand it as the most surprising fit bid of the year.

p.s. while you might like P P 1D 4H 4S to show diamonds, what would you bid with 6-6 in the blacks that you chose not to open for similar reasons?

[nige1]

guelphdad, on 2011-May-04, 21:30, said:

As dealer I see: ♠ AKxxxx ♥ x ♦ xxxxxx I know rule of 20 says I can open the hand in first seat, but I opted to pass, see what partner bid. Auction went
P-P-1♦-4♥
At that point I was torn on whether to bid spades, but knowing partner had less than four but guaranteed three diamonds I bid 5.
a) am I right to not open the hand and see what fit I had with partner?
b) RHO had ♥AKTxxxxx as it turns out, and I knew they weren't a flaky bidder
Five diamonds made. For future though if I'm not facing that jump bid from opps, am I best to open or pass as I did?

mike777, on 2011-May-04, 21:31, said:

fwiw I would open 2s

I agree 2♠ = 10, _P = 9, 1♠ = 7, 3♠ = 6, 4♠ = 5.

Free, on 2011-May-05, 02:04, said:

Imo, if you pass first, you can safely bid 4♠. This should show ♦ support and gives opener choice of games (or more if he's strong).

Cunnng! If I worked that out then 4♠ = 10, 5♦ = 9, 6♦ = 7, 5♠ = 6, _P = 3.
Having read what Frances wrote, I accept that she may be evaluating this hand more realistically than I am..

[mcphee]

I do not really see the thrill to open these sort of hands, partner has the right to expect something. These hands are so easy to bid after passing but so many want to open and complicate matters. I can see taking a shot at 4S, and it is a shot when you may go down there but make diamonds. I would also be most unhappy if playing standard weak 2 bids and someone opened this 2S.

[whereagles]

28 zars, so you might want to open this one 1♠.

But pass, intending to make a 2-suited overcall later, is ok too.

[rhm]

mcphee, on 2011-May-08, 07:39, said:

I do not really see the thrill to open these sort of hands, partner has the right to expect something.

Let's get some common sense into this discussion.
Considering how many people open nowadays any sort of balanced 10 or 11 count rubbish, I do not understand this comment.
I rather pass balanced 11 or poor 12 counts than such hands.

Quote

These hands are so easy to bid after passing but so many want to open and complicate matters.

It can be argued whether these hands are easy to bid when opponents are likely to preempt like here. Tell me your easy bid over P-(P)-1♣-(4♥) over P-(P)-1♦-(4♥) over P-(P)-1♥-(5♣), over P-(P)-1♦-(5♣)?
Two suiters can be hard to show when opponents preempt and I prefer to start rather sooner than wait.
But the whole point is not whether a hand is easy to bid after pass. The point is whether there is a big advantage to fire the first shot and keeping ahead of the opponents in the bidding.

JLOGIC, on 2011-May-05, 00:30, said:

Anyways, opening this hand at the 1 level is absurd, you should never be considering opening a 7 point hand at the 1 level.

I would open at the 1 level and do not see why that is absurd. I doubt that anybody has sufficient experience with 6=1=6=0 distribution to make such a claim. While I may get too high I may also reach slam I might otherwise easily miss, not on paper but in practice. I like my chances and I doubt that partner will often be disappointed when he gets such a dummy.
Can this backfire? Of course it can. But opening weak balanced or semi balanced hands has a far better chance to backfire.
Bridge and particular Bidding is a game of probabilities.

Holding 6=1=6=0 means that you have an a priori chance of 97.42% that you have at least an 8 card fit and a 71.7% chance of having a nine card fit. So I am not too worried that the hand is a total misfit and I want to find my fit before opponents find theirs.
The expected average total tricks on this distribution is 18.73, which should be a big incentive to open the bidding first.

Rainer Herrmann

[kgr]

FrancesHinden, on 2011-May-07, 14:33, said:

I don't mind not opening the hand (you don't tell us the vulnerability which has a big impact on the choice of pre-empt). However, after P P 1D 4H I would have bid a slam. 5D is a huge understatement of the hand. I like 5S if partner will understand it as the most surprising fit bid of the year.

p.s. while you might like P P 1D 4H 4S to show diamonds, what would you bid with 6-6 in the blacks that you chose not to open for similar reasons?

I agree with this