[Hanoi5]

They're red, you hold:

♠9842
♥A4
♦J
♣KJT432

Pa-Pa-Pa-1♦
1♠-X-2♠-3♥
Pa-4♣-Pa-4♦
Pa-???

What do you take 4♦ as? What's your call?

[Phil]

Did I really make a negative double with ♥Ax?

[wyman]

Phil, on 2011-August-25, 08:42, said:

Did I really make a negative double with ♥Ax?

This. I would bid 2C over 1S, and X is not on my radar.

[inquiry]

The auction would never go this way, as no way I double 1♠ on this hand.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I think it is called a " BBO DBL " .

[Zelandakh]

4D appears to be a cue bid. I daresay your partner will ask you after the hand why you made a club cue bid in support of hearts and how you got 2 diamonds mixed in with your hearts when holding only 1!

[Hanoi5]

Let's suppose you and/or your partner play negative doubles to show a hand which cannot bid because (a) it lacks the HCP's to bid at the level it has to, or, (b) it doesn't have the number of cards neccessary to bid the suit. Usually when you double and then bid a new suit you show a hand with a good suit but not enough HCP's to bid your suit.

So, you doubled instead of bidding 2♣ (even though you were a passed hand) and now the bidding has gotten here. What is 4♦? What do you do?

[Phil]

Hanoi5, on 2011-August-25, 14:03, said:

Let's suppose you and/or your partner play negative doubles to show a hand which cannot bid because (a) it lacks the HCP's to bid at the level it has to, or, (b) it doesn't have the number of cards neccessary to bid the suit. Usually when you double and then bid a new suit you show a hand with a good suit but not enough HCP's to bid your suit.

So, you doubled instead of bidding 2♣ (even though you were a passed hand) and now the bidding has gotten here. What is 4♦? What do you do?

If I played such a method, I would have discussed continuations such as this. So I suppose it means whatever you want it to.

[JLOGIC]

You are a passed hand! You have a good 6 card suit and 9 points, what are you waiting for to bid 2C here, an opening hand? Bidding 2C with 10 and a 5 card suit but not with KJTxxx and an A is pretty awful.

[jonottawa]

2/10

[cherdano]

Hanoi, you should really really stop posting in the A/E forum.

[Flameous]

Ok, I'll take bit of my own look at the auction and assume you haven't passed. I play NFBs so to me this sequence shows hand too good to bid direct 2♣, so approx a king more at least. 4♦ would be just looking for the right strain, likely 1462/1471. I guess I'll bid 5C.

Without NFB, I'd assume the same but NF.

[Free]

Hanoi5, on 2011-August-25, 14:03, said:

Let's suppose you and/or your partner play negative doubles to show a hand which cannot bid because (a) it lacks the HCP's to bid at the level it has to, or, (b) it doesn't have the number of cards neccessary to bid the suit. Usually when you double and then bid a new suit you show a hand with a good suit but not enough HCP's to bid your suit.

So, you doubled instead of bidding 2♣ (even though you were a passed hand) and now the bidding has gotten here. What is 4♦? What do you do?

What does a 2♣ bid look like for you??? ♣AKQJTxxxx and a side suit J or something?

[Zelandakh]

Free, on 2011-August-26, 05:22, said:

What does a 2♣ bid look like for you??? ♣AKQJTxxxx and a side suit J or something?

9 tricks here, so clearly a 2C opener...

[whereagles]

Hanoi, the auction is messed up. Pard took 4♣ as a heart cue and is cueing back. I don't know if you can get out of this roller-coaster in one piece... Try 4♥. No dbl, no trouble. If dbl... pull to 5♣. Maybe then pard will get the message.

[Hanoi5]

Maybe I should have asked this somewhere else, but I thought it would be more standard than it actually is. Anyway, the auction, messed up as it is, falls into the system you're playing, and yes you could have bid 2♣ which would have shown 10-11 but you didn't 'cause you knew doubling and then bidding your clubs was a way to show your hand. 4♦ shouldn't be a cue with hearts 'cause 4♣ was natural, the question was mainly asked to see if pass was a possibility over 4♦ or not. Now, would you pass or bid?

[Zelandakh]

If X is essentially almost any 6-9 in your system, which it sounds like, then for Opener to bid 3H they have to have a whopper. They are forcing to 3NT or the 4 level opposite a minimum responder without any sense of fit so imho it makes sense to play it as GF. Given that, I think 4D should be something akin to choice of game. If Opener had a hand that would want to bid a non-forcing 4D now then they would surely have only doubled last time around.

[aguahombre]

The plus tick for Zel's post was mine. Finally someone, who also dislikes the conditions, but after three tries by the OP for an answer, gave an attempt.

Now, in addition to knowing our opinion about the negative double by a passed hand with this collection, the OP has found out what one person would be thinking about if he sat in for the player who put him in that situation and had to work it out as best he could.

[FrancesHinden]

If your double just means "I have enough points to act" and nothing else about your hand, then partner has shown a big red two-suiter, and "should be" something like 4=7 or possibly 5=7 in the reds (with 5=6 he would probably just have bid 4H over 2S).
But if that is what he has, then your 4C bid shouldn't be natural, it should be a cue for hearts, because opposite such a big red 2-suiter you can't have a hand that wants to play in cubs (didn't open, didn't pre-empt, didn't bid clubs last round), and you should have bid 4D over 3H.

But the point everyone is trying to make is that, playing your described methods, you have an obvious 2C bid over 1S.

And I bet a lot of money that partner doesn't have the hand I've described, because he thinks you promised hearts when you doubled.