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freak 2/1

#1 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2011-November-08, 20:41



2/1, your bid?
And, do you play 2♠ as forcing?
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#2 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-November-08, 22:41

2S is forcing. Leben applies.

Have to abstain on what I would bid, due to style (wouldn't have responded 1NT). Doesn't mean disapproval of 1NT for others who can handle the current problem, just wouldn't have any idea how to deal with this case after doing so.
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#3 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2011-November-08, 23:10

I would not have bid 1NT either.
2S is forcing.
Ingberman, blackout or Leb applies here.
Having bid 1NT I know bid 2NT and hope to play in 3D.
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#4 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2011-November-08, 23:19

So, if you wouldn't bid 1N you must pass?

I don't have any gadget like leb, ingberman with this p
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
If you are my partner, please never tell me "I play the rule of (insert #)"
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#5 User is online   mike777 

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Posted 2011-November-08, 23:25

easy 1nt

yes 2s is F1
easy 2nt(art now)


3d would be nat and gf.


2nt is weakish and forcing

one more reason to not reverse on random 16 or 17

pard can look at her hand and guess we are weak with minors.
my hope is to go down less than the other table.
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#6 User is offline   BunnyGo 

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Posted 2011-November-09, 01:45

View Postjillybean, on 2011-November-08, 23:19, said:

So, if you wouldn't bid 1N you must pass?


I don't have a strong opinion on 1N vs pass, I would probably bid 1N.

Quote

I don't have any gadget like leb, ingberman with this p


Because of this, I now think you should pass because of exactly this situation.
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#7 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-November-09, 02:04

View Postmike777, on 2011-November-08, 23:25, said:

easy 1nt
my hope is to go down less than the other table.

Interesting when the two thoughts are put together by the same person.
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#8 User is offline   mich-b 

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Posted 2011-November-09, 02:22

I would surely have responded 1NT , and consider passing on the 1st round a poor choice.
Now, 2♠ is forcing , and I would bid 3♦ if I don't have any special gadgets (and 2NT if that happens to fit the gadget we're playing).
Even if I (wrongly) thought 2♠ is not forcing , I would still bid 3♦.
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#9 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2011-November-09, 02:48

2NT now to try to stop in 3♦
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#10 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2011-November-09, 09:10

Ideally we would have a gadget to show a bust hand after the reverse. Lacking this gadget and having first responded
1nt why would we need to play a reverse by opener as forcing?
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
If you are my partner, please never tell me "I play the rule of (insert #)"
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#11 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-November-09, 09:44

Because, regardless of what Responder's NT bid meant, or regardless of what gadgets you have, the reverse could be very very strong and opener could want to be in at least game opposite any response. AKJX AKQXX KXX X comes to mind.
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#12 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2011-November-09, 09:51

This is the maximum opener can have, why not let partner judge if game is possible?
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
If you are my partner, please never tell me "I play the rule of (insert #)"
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#13 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-November-09, 09:58

View Postjillybean, on 2011-November-09, 09:51, said:

This is the maximum opener can have, why not let partner judge if game is possible?

Because responder doesn't have enough information to do that unilaterally. The hand I gave is only one of many for opener.

I have a general rule of avoiding making decisions from only one side of the table without sufficient information from partner to do so.
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#14 User is offline   MickyB 

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Posted 2011-November-09, 10:02

View Postjillybean, on 2011-November-09, 09:51, said:

This is the maximum opener can have, why not let partner judge if game is possible?


Are you suggesting that 2S should be NF and that opener shouldn't rebid 2S on this? If so, what do you what opener to bid?

What do you want opener to bid on a 5S6H GF? 4S6H GF?

1H:1N, 2S is a fairly uncomfortable auction, even if you have agreements on how to show a long minor in a non-forcing manner, you still have 31(54) and (21)55 weak hands to worry about. I used to play 2N here as scrambling, not necessarily weak. The only reason I no longer do so is because I don't play natural rebids over the 1NT response.

If I don't have agreements here, I bid 3D and hope partner takes it as NF. I don't see why he would so I expect to finish in game, but who knows, it might make.
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#15 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-November-09, 16:40

View Postmich-b, on 2011-November-09, 02:22, said:

I would surely have responded 1NT , and consider passing on the 1st round a poor choice.
Now, 2♠ is forcing , and I would bid 3♦ if I don't have any special gadgets (and 2NT if that happens to fit the gadget we're playing).
Even if I (wrongly) thought 2♠ is not forcing , I would still bid 3♦.


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#16 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2011-November-10, 10:28

I play that 2S is NF, showing about 14-15 HCP. I would bid 3D.

If I played 2S as forcing (which is standard), then my next bid depended on our agreements. Some play 2NT as lebensohl here, although I believe that Fred once made a strong case on the forums for not playing lebensohl in this specific auction. Having a natural NF 3D available sounds ideal.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

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#17 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-November-10, 10:41

View Posthan, on 2011-November-10, 10:28, said:

I play that 2S is NF, showing about 14-15 HCP. I would bid 3D.

If I played 2S as forcing (which is standard), then my next bid depended on our agreements. Some play 2NT as lebensohl here, although I believe that Fred once made a strong case on the forums for not playing lebensohl in this specific auction. Having a natural NF 3D available sounds ideal.

Your limit on 2S is based on a forcing club system? That further emphasises the importance of overall style context on choices.
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