[Fluffy]

---

you receive ♠K lead (RHO discourages), you can't duck, how do you play?

[BunnyGo]

It seems that I have a sure heart loser and unless clubs are 2-2 or the queen of diamonds is doubleton a sure club loser. Either way, I need to try to pick up the hearts right away. I play ace of hearts and a heart towards the queen. Later I'll test the diamonds before running the clubs. If their returns permit me, I'll try for a minor suit squeeze.

[Mbodell]

My gut says you should cash the ♦A before playing on hearts, you may get a helpful diamond play later and you may decide to ruff a diamond to help get a count and extract cards for the minor suit squeeze.

So ♦A, ♥A and ♥ towards the Q?

[BunnyGo]

Mbodell, on 2011-November-09, 03:30, said:

ruff a diamond to help get a count and extract cards for the minor suit squeeze.

So ♦A, ♥A and ♥ towards the Q?

There's no squeeze if you ruff a diamond. Not enough winners without a third club in that case.

[whereagles]

What's so complicated about this? Just use the book play on trumps and hope for the best.

I guess you can make a more "clever" play like cashing ♦A, playing a club up and ruffing a spade before playing trumps. If someone's gets on play and is distracted enough to play diamonds and Qx is on, THEN you might not need luck in clubs. A bit of a LOL-ish shot, but I guess you could try it.

[kemperb]

whereagles, on 2011-November-09, 04:34, said:

What's so complicated about this? Just use the book play on trumps and hope for the best.

I guess you can make a more "clever" play like cashing ♦A, playing a club up and ruffing a spade before playing trumps. If someone's gets on play and is distracted enough to play diamonds and Qx is on, THEN you might not need luck in clubs. A bit of a LOL-ish shot, but I guess you could try it.

Yeah, I looked at this line at first, but as you note you are a dummy entry short to make it pay off against competent defenders. But not all defenders are competent and it is unlikely to cost in an average field, so it's probably right to try it. In a strong field, you risk going down more than others (diamonds were Qx and you find KJT of trumps offside and thus can't get to dummy for the ditches, going down two when clubs don't split), so it's probably wrong then.

[kemperb]

BunnyGo, on 2011-November-09, 03:56, said:

There's no squeeze if you ruff a diamond. Not enough winners without a third club in that case.

Sure there is. All you need is the hand with three clubs to also hold nine spades and the guarded ♦Q, then you have a routine triple squeeze set up.

(C'mon, the Hideous Hog would find a way to make it happen.)

[aguahombre]

Only the opponents make these slams, or the rest of the field if it is our direction. And the clubs are always 2-2 for them.

[kenrexford]

This is weird. I'd like to know the colors. I mean, the opponents have ten spades between them, and we have had a 1♥-P-2♥-P auction? Plus, they have eight clubs between them?

My gut tells me that K-third is over the heart Queen, so I'm really thinking about leading the Queen toward my Ace, which works fine if hearts are 2-2 and picks up K-third behind the Queen is the stiff heart to my left is J or 10. While ace and then up gains against all K-thirds to the left and any stiff heart Kings, the odds seem off here.

[mikeh]

I think that the heart spots make this a very, very close call.

In a vacuum, I think, but haven't worked out or checked, that the correct play in trump is A and low to the Q.

But we aren't in a vacuum.

We can infer that LHO holds the spade Q, so he has 11 vacant spaces to 12 for RHO.

We can infer that the chances of LHO holding the heart K are less than 50-50 not only on vacant space analysis but also on the bidding....if we assume that he will have 5+ spades some percentage of the time, then he may well have bid with Kx or KJx/K10x in hearts.

Once we place the heart K with RHO, we can consider playing to pick up KJx and K10x on our right....low to the Q. This loses to stiff K (assuming LHO splits) and to Kx, since we lose the restricted choice finesse back.

I suspect that the odds swing very slightly even more towards the low to the Q once we infer that clubs (almost) have to be 2-2 and that the vacant spaces become 9-10.

So I think the better line in trump is low to the Q, intending, should LHO appear to be inexperienced or asleep, to insert the 9 should he play low (thus picking up J10x while losing ignominiously to K10x KJx on our left...I'd really have to be comfortable with my read of LHO here) and to play the Q and hook coming back should the 10 or J appear (unless the Q wins ).

This all gets, for me, very complicated. Thus we can fairly safely place LHO with fewer than 7 spades and infrequently 6 (no jump overcall, tho he is red) while it is quite possible for RHO to have 6 or 7, since his suit is so weak he'd never be bidding. However, I think that low to the Q is the slightly better play at this juncture.

I am writing this in a break in drafting an argument for a court hearing, so am tired, distracted and possibly missing something important.....in which case I will soon read about it

[nige1]

Deleted

[Fluffy]

Thx for the takers, this is a made up hand not real.

My intention was that there are 3 chances to make this assuming no 2 trump losers:

-Clubs 2-2
-Diamond queen doubleton
-No trump loser


To combine the 3 chances you have to play a club to dummy at trick 2 and lead a trump from there to have a chance of no trump loser when RHO has ♥K10. If diamond queen is doubleton, you will eventually reach dummy anyway with ♥Q9x later even if you lose a trump.

[Mbodell]

Fluffy, on 2011-November-10, 02:52, said:

Thx for the takers, this is a made up hand not real.

My intention was that there are 3 chances to make this assuming no 2 trump losers:

-Clubs 2-2
-Diamond queen doubleton
-No trump loser


To combine the 3 chances you have to play a club to dummy at trick 2 and lead a trump from there to have a chance of no trump loser when RHO has ♥K10. If diamond queen is doubleton, you will eventually reach dummy anyway with ♥Q9x later even if you lose a trump.

How do you have no loser in trump? If RHO has KT then LHO has J7 and against best defense they will take a trick. I guess you could lead the Q off the board and hope that RHO with KT or K7 or AT or A7 ducks fearing that their partner has a stiff A/K, but really I think you have a guaranteed trump loser. Crossing in clubs will feel silly if clubs are 3-1 but the diamond Q was stiff and you now give up a club ruff when you lose the first round of trump to LHO.

Oh, I see, you are hoping that RHO will play the K from KT when you lead low from the board enabling you to win the A and then the Q?

[kgr]

Mbodell, on 2011-November-10, 05:16, said:

How do you have no loser in trump? If RHO has KT then LHO has J7 and against best defense they will take a trick. I guess you could lead the Q off the board and hope that RHO with KT or K7 or AT or A7 ducks fearing that their partner has a stiff A/K, but really I think you have a guaranteed trump loser. Crossing in clubs will feel silly if clubs are 3-1 but the diamond Q was stiff and you now give up a club ruff when you lose the first round of trump to LHO.

Oh, I see, you are hoping that RHO will play the K from KT when you lead low from the board enabling you to win the A and then the Q?

I don't see why RHO would ever play the K if you lead low from dummy. Maybe not cover if you lead the Q, but that also seems unlikely to me.

[cloa513]

My thoughts on what West holds
♠KQJx
♥Kxx
♦xxx
♣J109
which would make the contract hopeless
Hope for
♠KQJx
♥Kxx
♦xxxx
♣J10

Can't imagine West holding any less HCP otherwise its so unlikely East didn't into the bidding holding more than 5HCP and 6 spades.

[Fluffy]

sorry, though I wouldn't have to explain this in A/E

when dummy has Q9x and oyu have K10, it is a common false card to play the King to induce declarer to finese the 10 if he has AJxxx

[kgr]

Fluffy, on 2011-November-10, 06:23, said:

sorry, though I wouldn't have to explain this in A/E

when dummy has Q9x and oyu have K10, it is a common false card to play the King to induce declarer to finese the 10 if he has AJxxx

Sorry, I didn't realize this.
(Let's say that I'm the worst advanced that there is...Then I'm still allowed to read A/E?)
BTW: These false cards I find interesting and I almost don't know any of them. I'll try to find if there exists a post in the forums (or internet) that lists the most important ones, so I don't make this mistake again.

[mikeh]

Fluffy, on 2011-November-10, 02:52, said:

Thx for the takers, this is a made up hand not real.

My intention was that there are 3 chances to make this assuming no 2 trump losers:

-Clubs 2-2
-Diamond queen doubleton
-No trump loser


To combine the 3 chances you have to play a club to dummy at trick 2 and lead a trump from there to have a chance of no trump loser when RHO has ♥K10. If diamond queen is doubleton, you will eventually reach dummy anyway with ♥Q9x later even if you lose a trump.

Nice hand, Gonzalo.

I think the theme of creating opportunities for the opponents to do the wrong thing, for the right reason, is relatively underdeveloped. And rates to remain so, since a line such as this wouldn't gain you any edge against 99.9% of bridge players. The vast majority of players wouldn't even realize, after the hand, that an opportunity existed, and a good number of those who did would only realize it too late. And I suspect that I would usually be one of the latter...certainly if this has ever arisen for me at the table, I didn't see it....playing the K here is a play one tends to remember no matter how it turned out.

So thanks for highlighting one such issue.

One of the strengths of Martens, as a bridge writer, is that he spends a lot of time, in some of his books, exploring this type of theme, more so than any other writer with whom I am familiar.

[Fluffy]

Thanks for the compliments mikeh. I love this kind of things also, but I can't make them at the table anyway because my opponents are nver of this level.

The one I want to do one day is to play (dummy) Q109x opposite (hand) Axxxx for no losers by playing low to queen. (Kx twice as likelly than a stiff honnor where it is needed)