[Cyberyeti]

---

The bidding is less than wonderful, but the final contract is OK. 2♠ was a rock crushing single suiter or an opening hand with 5 spades to 2/3 tops and 4 hearts to 1/3, 3♥ confirmed the latter. 4♠ was keycard (I mistyped the response, should have been 5♦).

So you play in 6♥, W leads the ♦K which holds, then tables the ♦Q.

How do you play this if:

a) You rate LHO as being capable of deliberately giving you a ruff and discard looking at ♠Kxxx to try to make you go off in a laydown.

b) you don't rate LHO at all

Spoiler

If and when you play a round of trumps, E shows out

[gnasher]

Against anybody, I would assume that ♠K is on my left and play accordingly: ruff in hand, throwing a club from dummy; draw trumps, spade finesse. There are several reasons for this:

- Regardless of their ability, they're more likely to do something careless or desperate when they're looking at ♠K. Even if LHO is playing cards at random, either spade finesse is about the same odds.
- It's lower variance, because the most I can lose is 13, not 17. If I'm playing against people who will randomly let through a slam by giving a ruff and discard at trick two, I'm obviously better than them, so lower variance is good.
- It feels better to go down in a contract that was originally no-play than in one that was cold, and I don't care whether that's rational or not.

[Yu18772]

I would think that with ♦ AKxxx and ♠ Kxxx, NV my LHO would try to overcall / X / do something over 1♥ opening? I think he doesnt realize he gave you a sluf and ruff.

[Fluffy]

I had one of those in 2004: http://www.bridgebas...post-your-line/ And my opponents were bad.

Opponents were incapable of counting but they won´t carelessly play a ruff and discard if not desperate. I went down in 2004, but now I will finese spades thanks.

[phil_20686]

I'm a bit confused - if I ruff pitching a spade from hand I still need to do something with my club loser. Are you imagining they will only give a ruff and D when both clubs and spades are right? By that reasoning we might as well pitch a spade from hand and take the club hook.

It feels much more bizarre for lho to give a R&D when he has the Q of clubs than basically holding anything in the spade suit? maybe ruff in dummy and take an immeadeate club hook, then draw trumps and hook the club again.

[Cyberyeti]

Yu18772, on 2011-November-29, 23:29, said:

I would think that with ♦ AKxxx and ♠ Kxxx, NV my LHO would try to overcall / X / do something over 1♥ opening? I think he doesnt realize he gave you a sluf and ruff.

He doesn't have AK♦, he has KQ, but I guess the issue still applies as to why didn't he bid if he had K♠.

[Cyberyeti]

phil_20686, on 2011-November-30, 05:16, said:

I'm a bit confused - if I ruff pitching a spade from hand I still need to do something with my club loser. Are you imagining they will only give a ruff and D when both clubs and spades are right? By that reasoning we might as well pitch a spade from hand and take the club hook.

It feels much more bizarre for lho to give a R&D when he has the Q of clubs than basically holding anything in the spade suit? maybe ruff in dummy and take an immeadeate club hook, then draw trumps and hook the club again.

Well the spades might be 3-3 in which case both clubs go west, or you can take a ruffing spade finesse, or you can hook the club.

What I did at the table was to play for this to be an error, and go for spades 3-3 or the Q♣ onside (to 3 or less if trumps are 3-0, to any number if they're 2-1). Ruff on the table, A♠ and ruff one, heart to table revealing that W had 3, spade ruff high W pitching 2 further trumps finishing in dummy and the club finesse.

The actual EW hands:

---

So this was good enough, but that was one of the longer trick 2 thinks I've had.

[phil_20686]

gnasher, on 2011-November-29, 16:05, said:

Against anybody, I would assume that ♠K is on my left and play accordingly: ruff in hand, throwing a club from dummy; draw trumps, spade finesse. There are several reasons for this:

- Regardless of their ability, they're more likely to do something careless or desperate when they're looking at ♠K. Even if LHO is playing cards at random, either spade finesse is about the same odds.
- It's lower variance, because the most I can lose is 13, not 17. If I'm playing against people who will randomly let through a slam by giving a ruff and discard at trick two, I'm obviously better than them, so lower variance is good.
- It feels better to go down in a contract that was originally no-play than in one that was cold, and I don't care whether that's rational or not.

You are basically playing for LHO to have done this with the club Q and the spade Kxxx (as Kx Kxx come down anyways). Moreover, it feels like one should infer that lho has 5D from the lead and play, as with KQ to 6 or more and the spade K he woudl likely find a WJO.

Just feels like you should ruff some spades then maybe take the club hook.

[lmilne]

I think I would probably get this wrong at the table (although I'm not sure on my maths, I might back your line if it's a fairly big favourite).

That is a pretty weird/bad play if you consider your LHO to be even vaguely competent.

[Cyberyeti]

lmilne, on 2011-December-01, 12:01, said:

I think I would probably get this wrong at the table (although I'm not sure on my maths, I might back your line if it's a fairly big favourite).

That is a pretty weird/bad play if you consider your LHO to be even vaguely competent.

Actually it isn't. He has 5 diamonds and expects his partner to have 4 not 6 for his start of a hi-lo. If LHO had 6 or more, he might well have overcalled, so this is quite likely.

[Free]

Not sure where I would place the ♠K and ♣Q. All I can say is that, when looking at the suits in isolation, the ♣ finesse is more successful because you can cash a high honor first trying to drop the stiff Q. With the ♠ suit you can't cash a high honor, you immediately have to take the finesse.

[whereagles]

Disc a club and ruff in hand. Maybe LHO has ♠KT9x and is trying to tap dummy?

[jogs]

Cyberyeti, on 2011-November-30, 11:08, said:

The actual EW hands:

---

So this was good enough, but that was one of the longer trick 2 thinks I've had.

You should wait a few days before posting the hands.
Give us a chance to think before replying.

[lmilne]

Cyberyeti, on 2011-December-01, 13:12, said:

Actually it isn't. He has 5 diamonds and expects his partner to have 4 not 6 for his start of a hi-lo. If LHO had 6 or more, he might well have overcalled, so this is quite likely.

I understand that it's fairly unlikely to cost, but I don't see what the gain position is.

[aguahombre]

Anyone questioning whether West should know he is giving a sluff-ruff is challenging two things: West' competence, AND his respect for Declarer.

He Kickbacked for hearts without the Ace or King of diamonds. How about a poll on what declarer's diamond situation is?

[lmilne]

aguahombre, on 2011-December-02, 09:49, said:

Anyone questioning whether West should know he is giving a sluff-ruff is challenging two things: West' competence, AND his respect for Declarer.

He Kickbacked for hearts without the Ace or King of diamonds. How about a poll on what declarer's diamond situation is?

Good point. Against a competent declarer who kickbacks without much thought playing a second diamond is in fact quite likely to cost.

[Cyberyeti]

aguahombre, on 2011-December-02, 09:49, said:

Anyone questioning whether West should know he is giving a sluff-ruff is challenging two things: West' competence, AND his respect for Declarer.

He Kickbacked for hearts without the Ace or King of diamonds. How about a poll on what declarer's diamond situation is?

I could understand him having no respect for declarer

Actually there was another hand recently where I had to flat out guess that partner had a stiff diamond (after the auction started 3♦-P-P-3♥-P-4♦(good raise)-P) and kickback with a doubleton, but I agree in this auction unlikely.

As to where it gains, if by some miracle declarer does have more than one diamond and a stiff spade plus a club position that requires 2 finesses, taking the late entry out of the dummy at this stage might reduce declarer's options, and playing for spades 4-3 could be fatal when it's survivable if you leave the 4th trump there.