[lamford]

---

The above is a hand I made a pig's ear of this week. My partner was an English international, but we had no agreements over what 2NT would have been by responder in this sequence (we have now). What would you bid? Some readers will know the hand (and be able to testify it occurred, pip for pip), but I still welcome their views. You assume 2S is FG and you are playing 2/1 game force with a 1NT response semi-forcing.

[mike777]

4c no problem yet.

I assume 3c is natural/gf in any style.

[Yu18772]

3♥, we might very well belong in 3NT or 4♠

[MrAce]

Yu18772, on 2011-December-09, 19:34, said:

3♥, we might very well belong in 3NT or 4♠

WoW

[jillybean]

4♣

[lamford]

Yu18772, on 2011-December-09, 19:34, said:

3♥, we might very well belong in 3NT or 4♠

If partner has ♠xxx ♥ Jxx ♦ x ♣ A10xxxx is he expected to bid 3NT?

[Onedown]

lamford, on 2011-December-09, 17:20, said:

---

The above is a hand I made a pig's ear of this week. My partner was an English international, but we had no agreements over what 2NT would have been by responder in this sequence (we have now). What would you bid? Some readers will know the hand (and be able to testify it occurred, pip for pip), but I still welcome their views. You assume 2S is FG.

Why 2♠s? Are we looking for a 4-3 ♠ fit? Partner has denied a 4 card major so its game either in a minor or 3NT. Over 1NT I get simple and pray, 3NT!

On the auction given, again I do not get too complicated, its either 3NT or 5♣! I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish with 3♥s?

The ? being is 9 tricks or 11 tricks easier? I bid 3NT! You need less good things to happen than in 5♣

[whereagles]

Good hand for a 4♥ ANTI-BLUHMER

[mike777]

I expect pard to have something close to:


Kxx..Qxx..x...Axxxxx or even a bit more.

With less or a lot less he could bid 2nt.


btw I would never assume 2s is gf.

[ggwhiz]

Onedown, on 2011-December-10, 07:56, said:

Why 2♠s? Are we looking for a 4-3 ♠ fit?

2♠ just announces your strength and followed by 4♣ announces your shape (nearly) perfectly.

Given my stiff A♥ and partners natural ♣ bid, if notrump was the right strain partner would or should already have bid it. Partner is now well placed to pick the strain and suggest or set the level.

[neilkaz]

Raise to 4♣ support with support.

[AlexJonson]

I would definitely bid 3NT over 3C.

I've got two top spade losers, I've bid very strongly, enough is enough for me.

[mike777]

We are told we are playing with an expert in the expert forum.

I dont get these 3nt bids....pard has only 3 h at most......he has announced a hand with extras not weakish and we have alot of extras, 2s is not gf, 3c is not weak or minimum. We have not yet fully described our shape or power yet.

[rhm]

3♥

this hardly can suggest ♥ as trumps.
I do not know whether we belong in 3NT or a high level ♣ contract.
If partner bids 3NT I will pass, if anything else I will bid 4♣ over 3♠ and 4♥ over 4♣ or 4♦, which should agree ♣ and show interest in a ♣ slam.
When 1NT is semi-forcing partner can have a wide range of strength.
If he is just below a game forcing 2♣ bid, we could easily belong in 6♣, for example ♠Kx,♥xxx,♦Qx,♣AJxxxx

Rainer Herrmann

[lamford]

rhm, on 2011-December-10, 16:31, said:

3♥

this hardly can suggest ♥ as trumps.
I do not know whether we belong in 3NT or a high level ♣ contract.
If partner bids 3NT I will pass, if anything else I will bid 4♣ over 3♠ and 4♥ over 4♣ or 4♦, which should agree ♣ and show interest in a ♣ slam.
When 1NT is semi-forcing partner can have a wide range of strength.
If he is just below a game forcing 2♣ bid, we could easily belong in 6♣, for example ♠Kx,♥xxx,♦Qx,♣AJxxxx

Rainer Herrmann

I considered 3H, but thought that partner might not be able to bid 3NT when it was right to do so. My view was that 3NT was quite likely to be the last making game, and therefore I bid it. Partner had Kxx Kxx x A10xxxx so 6C was cold. I think that if you do not play 2NT as LEB here it is a difficult problem, but if 2NT shows a bad 3C (or bad 3D) bid it is easy.

[mike777]

lamford, on 2011-December-10, 17:49, said:

I considered 3H, but thought that partner might not be able to bid 3NT when it was right to do so. My view was that 3NT was quite likely to be the last making game, and therefore I bid it. Partner had Kxx Kxx x A10xxxx so 6C was cold. I think that if you do not play 2NT as LEB here it is a difficult problem, but if 2NT shows a bad 3C (or bad 3D) bid it is easy.

almost the exact hand I quoted ...not a surprise


If we have only one bid then 6c is clear....i dont get these 3nt or 3h or thinking of playing in 4s bids.

Playing with an expert or even an adv.. pard with little discussion then 3c must be extras and 2nt is the default weak bid( I never play leb over reverses but 2nt must be the weak bid with no discussion).

OTherwise 3c is just undefined bridge.

[lamford]

mike777, on 2011-December-10, 18:00, said:

almost the exact hand I quoted ...not a surprise


If we have only one bid then 6c is clear....i dont get these 3nt or 3h or thinking of playing in 4s bids.

Playing with an expert or even an adv.. pard with little discussion then 3c must be extras and 2nt is the default weak bid( I never play leb over reverses but 2nt must be the weak bid with no discussion).

OTherwise 3c is just undefined bridge.

I agree I should have assumed an expert would bid 2NT with a bad hand, even if undiscussed. And I think it is right to play the cheaper of fourth-suit (if applicable) or 2NT as LEB after any reverse.

[rhm]

mike777, on 2011-December-10, 18:00, said:

almost the exact hand I quoted ...not a surprise


If we have only one bid then 6c is clear....i dont get these 3nt or 3h or thinking of playing in 4s bids.

Playing with an expert or even an adv.. pard with little discussion then 3c must be extras and 2nt is the default weak bid( I never play leb over reverses but 2nt must be the weak bid with no discussion).

OTherwise 3c is just undefined bridge.

What can 3♥ be, except showing doubt about the final strain? What meaning would you like to attach to this cheap bid over 3♣?
The inference is mainly negative, that opener did not want to bid anything else.
Opener neither wanted to stress his own suits any further nor did he bid 3NT or bypass 3NT and unequivocally go after a high level ♣ contract.
He raises doubt whether to go for a high level ♣ contract or 3NT, a good description of this hand.

Of course 3♣ is "undefined" bridge as much as 3♥ might be, but this is quite a common occurrence in an unpracticed partnership and not so rare even for experienced ones.

Rainer Herrmann

[gszes]

lamford, on 2011-December-09, 17:20, said:

---

The above is a hand I made a pig's ear of this week. My partner was an English international, but we had no agreements over what 2NT would have been by responder in this sequence (we have now). What would you bid? Some readers will know the hand (and be able to testify it occurred, pip for pip), but I still welcome their views. You assume 2S is FG.

If p had a hand similar to

xxx
QJx
xx
AJxxx

they would have bid 3n directly over 2s

With

xxx
Kxx
xxx
Axxx

they would at least bid 2n over 2s

even with
Kx
QJx
xx
xxxxxx
they would prefer 2n to 3c

we are forced to assume there is a flaw in p hand
for nt purposes and it is almost assuredly because they
lack a heart stopper. Once we make that determination
the only questions left are why did p bid 3c and how
do we proceed?

3h here would seem to ask for a partial stopper for 3n
so we should probably avoid that since Qx or Jxx would
not be a good combo for 3n.

It seems p hand can be anywhere from

xx
xxx
Q
Axxxxx

or

Kx
xxx
Q
JTxxxxx

to say

AK
xx
xx
Jxxxxxx

or how about

Kxx
xxx
xx
AJxxx

how about
Kxx
xxx
Qxx
Axxx

where p would loathe making a dia raise and
risk missing 3n

the point is almost any hand p would bid
3c with we should be in 5 or 6 of a minor
(mostly clubs)

The only way to get the message across of the
power of our hand is with a bid of

4h

No p beyond intermediate would have trouble
knowing this is heart shortness and club support
so p will have little trouble bidding 5c or
making a cue bid looking for 6. The nice part
about this is if p has dia support they can pretend
they have clubs until proper level is determined and
then bid dia at proper level.

[AlexJonson]

I'd like to take a momentary step back to the OP.

We were asked to accept 2S as GF. It's reasonable for a poster (eg Mike7s) to say I'm not accepting that, and to pursue his line of thought.

He might perhaps better have said he refused to reply to the OP at all if he wanted to sound off about bidding theory.