[MrAce]

---

IMP, 2/1 system.

2♦ : 4+ GF

What would you bid now with a pick up expert pd ?

[P_Marlowe]

6D.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[rduran1216]

5S now, 7D over 6C, pass over 6D

[whereagles]

No way to investigate 7, so I'll be happy with a conservative 6.

[gnasher]

6♦. Too many small clubs to consider a stronger action.

[aguahombre]

 rduran1216, on 2011-December-22, 02:00, said:

5S now, 7D over 6C, pass over 6D

 whereagles, on 2011-December-22, 02:46, said:

No way to investigate 7, so I'll be happy with a conservative 6.

I guess it depends on what rduran's 6C could be showing. If it is a pattern bid suggesting tricks there (X QXXXX KQXX KQJ) we like it a lot.

[jdeegan]

delete

[jdeegan]

5♠. Pard may not have more than a good fitting minimum, but with all the first round controls and a seven-bagger in trumps, I have to give him at least a chance to drive the hand to the diamond grand. Most of the time I expect to play 6♦. 5♠ says we are going to bid at least 6♦, but 7♦ is not out of the question.
If he bids 5NT I plan to cue 6♣. He can't bid 6♣ unless he is void (almost impossible), but he can bid 5NT as a sort of 'last train' saying he is still interested in seven. If he does, I will bid 6♣ saying I too am still interested and have the club ace. After that it's pretty much up to him. I pass his 6♦. If the putz bids 6♥ or 6♠ or 6NT, I'll bid 7♦.
Another possibility is if he bids 6♥ over my 5♠. I that case, I guess I have to go to 7♦ as well. I am not going to hazard playing 6NT because there is a fairly good chance I might get an extra trick or two by ruffing out pard's heart suit.

All that said, either 6 or 7 ♦ may well hinge on a club finesse.

[Flameous]

I'm fairly certain partner holds at most three black cards, whether he is 64 or 55 doesn't really matter. So seven seems to depend just on whether partner holds ♣K. I'm bidding 5♠ and hope partner can do something helpful. Of course we also have laydown 7 opposite solid hearts, I hope with those partner finds 6♥ call.

[gszes]

 MrAce, on 2011-December-22, 00:53, said:

---

IMP, 2/1 system.

2♦ : 4+ GF

What would you bid now with a pick up expert pd ?

There are 2 things required for a grand slam search

1. The player searching for 7 must be sure they they want
to play in at least 6.

2. If a trump suit is involved (vast majority of the time)
the trump suit must be set OR if not set for certain the
other plausible trump suit must be above the current one.

If condition 2 exists the parnership needs to agree that all
grand slam searches that begin at the 5 level or higher assume
the current trump suit will be in force until at least the 6 level.

within the constraints shown above the only way for south
to search for a grand is if they have 2 first round and 2nd round
of the other suit controlled (as well as having pretty good trumps
headed by the A at least) at a minimum.

This hand qualifies with 1 since we all agree that reaching 6d is
reasonable. Unfortunately since hearts is still a plausible suit
we must decide to play 5h as a natural conversion (an idea that
makes little sense at imps but could be a mp consideration) or we
can agree to not allow hearts to become the trump suit until the
6 level. I am going to assume the latter.

With no control information exchanged S can only search for a grand
with "pretty good trumps including the A" 2 first round controls and
the "other" suit 2nd round controlled at least. This means we are
looking for either a first round control or a second round control
since we have only one level to search. If we need more forget looking
for 7 not enough space (good advice in all cue bidding efforts).

We do not use 5n as GSF it is saved for the lowest level suit we cannot
bid naturally in order. That means that here with dia agreed we would
bid 5h to ask about hearts 5s to ask about spades and 5n to ask about
clubs. If the trump suit was spades --5n asks about hearts 6c about
clubs and 6d about dia etc.

P goes to 6 level of agreed trump suit with no control. Else p step
bids 1st step 2nd round 2nd step void 3rd step A (p bypasses 6 of the
agreed trump suit if necessary for these steps)


This hand bidding goes (after 5d)

5n asking about club control

6c = 2nd round control
6d = no control
6h = void
6s = ace

If we cant place the contract after this we probably should not be looking
for 7.

These situations crop up a lot and being able to ask about where help is needed
is a ton more useful than trying to just cuebid in general.

[gnasher]

 Flameous, on 2011-December-22, 06:43, said:

I'm fairly certain partner holds at most three black cards, whether he is 64 or 55 doesn't really matter.

With a 1543 shape, do you expect him to defend 4♠?

[Fluffy]

I can´t explain to partner that ♥AK(Q) are useless, so can´t find a reasonable aproach to 7. I´d bid just 6♦.

[rduran1216]

 Fluffy, on 2011-December-22, 08:12, said:

I can´t explain to partner that ♥AK(Q) are useless, so can´t find a reasonable aproach to 7. I´d bid just 6♦.

Useless?

x AKxxx Kxxx Kxx

xx AQxxx Kxxx Kx

are both cold for 7D

[pooltuna]

Bet on the ♥ wastage and settle for 6♦ (note this does not mean I think this contract is cold, just in the 80+ %age range)

[aguahombre]

 Fluffy, on 2011-December-22, 08:12, said:

I can´t explain to partner that ♥AK(Q) are useless, so can´t find a reasonable aproach to 7. I´d bid just 6♦.

Maybe so, maybe not...see rduran's follow-up post.

BTW: not helpful to this thread, but my warped mind thought back to the thread on denial cuebids. Over 5D, would our call be 6♠? That would be the first stop, showing no second control of spades

[mikeh]

While at the table, especially with a pickup partner, I would settle for 6♦ for the reasons given by Andy, on a higher level (at least I think it is a higher level) I think the better call is 5♠.

I would expect an expert partner to bid 5N with second round club control.....is there any other use for the call? Surely opener isn't involving hearts in the choice of contracts, nor can he conceivably be using GSF.

Over 5N, if we wanted only 2nd round control, we'd bid grand now.

So when we bid 6♣ over 5N, are we not asking for 3rd round control?

The fly in the ointment is that nobody has discussed the heart control in this auction, so maybe 6♣ asks about hearts? I think that that is too subtle, but I may be influenced by knowing that I have a void.

More to the point, even if he has doubt about what 6♣ means, he may have the hand where he bids 7 anyway, because he has everything we need.

And even if he gets confused, and bids without 3rd round control, we aren't down yet (tho I wouldn't like our chances) x AQJxx KQxx Kxx makes if the heart K ruffs out....and we have lots of entries to see if it drops 3rd and, if not, hook rho.

Since grand is trivial opposite suitable sub-minimums and we're always going to 6, opposite a true expert, I think 5♠ is worth the risk.

[Phil]

I would bid 6♦ only on the premise that we are in a forcing auction and that partner should be minimum range for 5♦.

I'd need a perfect minimum for 7; frankly I would not even expect that 6 is cold.

[rduran1216]

 Phil, on 2011-December-22, 11:33, said:

I would bid 6♦ only on the premise that we are in a forcing auction and that partner should be minimum range for 5♦.

I'd need a perfect minimum for 7; frankly I would not even expect that 6 is cold.

Its not easy constructing a hand in this auction that isn't laydown for 6

J KQJxx Qxxx Qxx still has play. any 1552 hand with K of clubs is cold, any 2641 with K of diamonds will be laydown for 7 as well.

Q QJxxx KQxx Kxx is as bad as it gets for 7, but 6 is still cold

[Zelandakh]

 aguahombre, on 2011-December-22, 10:44, said:

Maybe so, maybe not...see rduran's follow-up post.

BTW: not helpful to this thread, but my warped mind thought back to the thread on denial cuebids. Over 5D, would our call be 6♠? That would be the first stop, showing no second control of spades

I realise you are joking but this also highlights one of the benefits of the denial method. When you have a hand that wants to take control your denial cue bids start to look more like asking bids as per gszes. On this hand you can bid 6C asking for a club control for example. Mindlessly counting upwards a la spiral scan without your partner having made any ask is quite comical and really a gross misrepresentation. I am sure you knew that already but perhaps some readers think you were serious.

[gnasher]

 rduran1216, on 2011-December-22, 13:02, said:

Its not easy constructing a hand in this auction that isn't laydown for 6

I found it quite easy: x AQxxx KQxx xxx