[Cthulhu D]

IANAE: I like double = 15+ bal or semi bal here, you don't need to promise a stopper like you 'need' to with a natural 1NT overcall.

That said, I'd overcall 1NT here playing a 'normal' overcall system. I can see 1S though but you feel a bit heavy for that call.

[Antrax]

For those who think I'm advocating a pass because it worked on this hand: my bid after the double was 3♠ which I thought should be positive "enough" if we have a game. Partner passed and it was down 1 - he had a weak 4=5=2=2, you lose two clubs, a heart and a spade, and one or two diamonds, depending if you guess right. So, not boasting, really curious.

[han]

JLOGIC, on 2012-February-15, 14:54, said:

I am quite surprised. I think it will be hard to describe our hand if we start with pass and we are at risk of missing a game. If we have a game it's 4S or 3N and I think 1S will be a good start in either case, and we are at serious risk of never finding it if we pass. If we have a partial, I doubt 1S will be a terrible start, it will induce partner to compete/bid.

I don't like overcalling on a so-so 4-card suit, especially when vulnerable. Partner is a passed hand and the 1C opening on our right hand side also looks bad. I don't think that 3NT is likely, certainly not 3NT from our side. If the oppponents bid hearts I can make a takeout double. If not (and partner doesn't bid), then it is not clear to me that we are better off bidding.

[ahydra]

I'm tempted to X. I get lucky here if the auction is the same as if you pass, since opposite the responsive X you can just bid 4S.

ahydra

[Zelandakh]

Antrax, on 2012-February-16, 02:54, said:

For those who think I'm advocating a pass because it worked on this hand: my bid after the double was 3♠ which I thought should be positive "enough" if we have a game. Partner passed and it was down 1 - he had a weak 4=5=2=2, you lose two clubs, a heart and a spade, and one or two diamonds, depending if you guess right. So, not boasting, really curious.

After P - (1♣) - P - (1♦) we have both double and 1NT available to show the majors; depending on agreements possibly also one or both of 2♣ and 2♦ too. One of these should show a good hand and the other should show a less good hand but with some shape. Normal is to play double as the better hand and 1NT shapely but it is perfectly possible to invert the two. If partner really had a weak 4522 hand then they misbid unless such an inversion was in place. The 4♠ bidders (and I would have bid this too) are assuming double has its normal meaning here.

[Antrax]

With my regular partner, we play what you proposed, Zel (so X would show a maximum pass with some defense and a holding in both majors, and 1NT would be a shapelier takeout. 2m here would be natural - does that make sense?). This wasn't my regular partner, though, so he probably didn't know how I'd take 1NT by a passed hand. What he did was mastermind the hand, figuring I probably won't bid too high seeing as I'm a passed hand myself. Luckily for him I underbid so things sort of evened out (3♠-1 was the most common result on this board)
That's why I'm less interested in the auction as it were at the table, and more about my first bid.

[Zelandakh]

Antrax, on 2012-February-16, 06:01, said:

With my regular partner, we play what you proposed, Zel (so X would show a maximum pass with some defense and a holding in both majors, and 1NT would be a shapelier takeout. 2m here would be natural - does that make sense?).

Yes, this is perfectly sensible. Some pairs use the 2m bids to show 6-4 in the majors, some only have cue of LHO's suit as artificial and some play exactly what you are playing.

Antrax, on 2012-February-16, 06:01, said:

That's why I'm less interested in the auction as it were at the table, and more about my first bid.

My first bid would be 1NT but I am rather old-fashioned here with respect to 4 card overcalls. If you agree to overcall on 4-baggers frequently then this is clearly the better bid. With a pick-up partner everything is dangerous so you just have to weigh up which type you think they are and take your best shot. With no information whatsoever I would still think 1NT is safest - most partners will think to use Stayman with 4 spades after all - but would expect them to leave should the opponents take the first 5 (or more) club tricks in 3NT.

[Antrax]

Not a pickup, we just had ~15 minutes to discuss "system" before we started playing together for the first time, so we mostly discussed major suit raises, carding and system over NT openings

[S2000magic]

aguahombre, on 2012-February-15, 17:59, said:

. . . pass is doubly flawed.

Flaweder.

[Cyberyeti]

I would overcall 1♠, but then our 1/1 overcalls are sounder than most peoples'.