[mgoetze]

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What are your options and which do you choose?

[cloa513]

 mgoetze, on 2012-April-14, 17:53, said:

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What are your options and which do you choose?

Easy 4 Spades- you are vunerable against not- it says strong hand without tolerance for the other major. If partner is holding the other spade honours, he should realise the power of your hand and raise to 6, 7 with the ace of hearts as well.

[Bbradley62]

 cloa513, on 2012-April-14, 18:19, said:

Easy 4 Spades- you are vunerable against not- it says strong hand without tolerance for the other major. If partner is holding the other spade honours, he should realise the power of your hand and raise to 6, 7 with the ace of hearts as well.

Yeah, what he said!

[rmnka447]

Bid what you are likely to make. You have a 4 loser hand and it's reasonable to expect at least 1 useful card from partner.
So bid 4 ♠.

[aguahombre]

 mgoetze, on 2012-April-14, 17:53, said:

What are your options and which do you choose?

The options IMO are 3S and 4S, rather than double. I don't want to suggest doubt about what trump should be and would like to establish that imnediately. If 3S is forcing, partner can focus on spade honors and outside controls with more room. If we don't have 3S as forcing, then 4S is the only choice and partner will be in the dark as to whether to move with (say) KJX XXX KXXX XXX or somesuch.

[MrAce]

This topic made me realize that i don't have agreements about the difference between 3♠ and 4♠. Since both shows strong hand i think the number of spades perhaps decides the level to bid.

[gszes]

 mgoetze, on 2012-April-14, 17:53, said:

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What are your options and which do you choose?

if my suit were hearts I could understand a jump to 4 but here???
p has as little as Kxx xxx xxx Jxxx we are big favorite to
make 6s. Starting with x and converting to 4s will show our slam
potential.

there is virtually no chance p is going to convert a 2d tox
to penalty and we will get a chance to introduce our spades later.
the x is virtually risk free and that way we can save our jumps
for hands with better spades and less slam potential:

3s --- KQJxxxx Kx xx Ax
4s --- KQxxxxxx QJx xx A

[JLOGIC]

 MrAce, on 2012-April-14, 19:22, said:

This topic made me realize that i don't have agreements about the difference between 3♠ and 4♠. Since both shows strong hand i think the number of spades perhaps decides the level to bid.

What agreements do you need? 4S is a trick stronger than 3S, because 3S is NF. On this hand you make game opposite many yarboroughs. Jx of spades and out is a good game. xxx xxx xxxx xxx is a fantastic game. Ergo, bidding a non forcing 3S would be a bad bid.

[Antrax]

Quote

there is virtually no chance p is going to convert a 2d tox to penalty

What makes you say that?

[aguahombre]

 JLOGIC, on 2012-April-14, 23:47, said:

What agreements do you need? 4S is a trick stronger than 3S, because 3S is NF. On this hand you make game opposite many yarboroughs. Jx of spades and out is a good game. xxx xxx xxxx xxx is a fantastic game. Ergo, bidding a non forcing 3S would be a bad bid.

Agreed. My post was assuming 3S was forcing; and whole different situation.

[mgoetze]

So apparently, 3♠ is forcing, 3♠ is nonforcing, double expresses doubt about strain, and I'm not supposed to have any doubt about strain. (Really? Are there no hands where 6♣ is cold and 6♠ goes down?) I am totally bewildered and would really appreciate some longer, more thoughtful replies.

[Zelandakh]

 mgoetze, on 2012-April-15, 00:28, said:

So apparently, 3♠ is forcing, 3♠ is nonforcing, double expresses doubt about strain, and I'm not supposed to have any doubt about strain. (Really? Are there no hands where 6♣ is cold and 6♠ goes down?) I am totally bewildered and would really appreciate some longer, more thoughtful replies.

3♠ is not forcing playing standard methods, it simply shows a one-suited hand between the strength of a 2♠ overcall and that of a 4♠ overcall. There was a thread recently where the possibility of using this for something else (albeit over a 2♥ opening) was mentioned, a two-suited hand weaker than a Leaping Michaels overcall. Of course that would be non-forcing too.

Double says that our hand is not one-suited, usually a flexible hand clearly playable in 2 or 3 strains. 7M321 is basically one-suited so treating it as such seems most logical. After a preempt it is better to remove these from the double so the only possibility is to bid some number of spades unless you assign one of the higher level calls to a very good one-suited hand (also something discussed in the above-mentioned thread).

[gwnn]

Options a priori with a 7123 hand are pass, 2♠, 3♠, 4♠ and so on. I would never double with 7-1 in the majors over a minor suit preempt*. I would sometimes double with 7-1 or 1-7 in the majors over a non-preempt (because jumping in a major is weak now), but I personally don't remember ever doing it. I like keeping my doubles shape-suitable, sometimes yes I will x with a doubleton in an unbid major but with a 6-card discrepancy it is unthinkable to me.

Sure, there are hands where we miss clubs. But that's not that often.

*ok I'm not sure about very high preempts like 5♦. I meant 2 or 3 level preempts.