[jmc]

I am considering switching to invitational jump shifts instead of Bergen raises. What are your requirements in regards to a fit for partner's suit? i.e. 1S-3D, can 3D bidder have Hx of spades? Can he have two small? After the jump shift are new bids by opener game forcing? Any other suggestions for this method? I am playing this in a precision with 2/1 completely game forcing context. If anyone has links to other threads concerning this, I'd be much obliged if you'd share them.

[Phil]

jmc, on 2012-May-08, 13:58, said:

I am considering switching to invitational jump shifts instead of Bergen raises.

When I've discussed them:

Quote

What are your requirements in regards to a fit for partner's suit? i.e. 1S-3D, can 3D bidder have Hx of spades?

0-2 in partner's suit. Hx I could go either way on.

Quote

After the jump shift are new bids by opener game forcing?

Yes - I think these would be unplayable otherwise.

[jmc]

Does anyone know of a good book or website that discusses invitational jump shifts or has some example hands? I did read the Larry Cohen article that discussed them on bridgewinners but it was pretty emaciated.

[chasetb]

I can't say that I know of any good books or websites, but an IJS shows 8-11 HCP, at least a 6-card suit (good suit, but shouldn't be AKQJxx or AKQxxxx or better), 0-2 cards in partner's major, and you don't want to force to game or go through 1NT Forcing. Two example hands off the top of my head, after partner opens 1♠:
♠x ♥xx ♦Axx ♣ KQJxxxx
♠xx ♥Kx ♦AQT9xx ♣ xxx

[gnasher]

I think an IJS should show a hand that would invite opposite a 12-14 notrump. That would make x xx Axx KQJxxxx too strong, but Chasetb's other example looks OK to me.

I think there's not much material available about continuations because it's hard to do anything good with this auction. You really want it to go 1x-3y;pass or 1x-3y;3NT.

Does anyone know what 1♠-3♦;3♥ means? And does anyone play 1M-3♣;3♦ as artificial?

[mgoetze]

chasetb, on 2012-May-09, 02:10, said:

I can't say that I know of any good books or websites, but an IJS shows 8-11 HCP, at least a 6-card suit (good suit, but shouldn't be AKQJxx or AKQxxxx or better), 0-2 cards in partner's major, and you don't want to force to game or go throughplay 1NT Forcing.

FYP.

[JLOGIC]

gnasher, on 2012-May-09, 02:48, said:

Does anyone know what 1♠-3♦;3♥ means? And does anyone play 1M-3♣;3♦ as artificial?

I play them all as just showing a stopper. As you said, the goal is to play 3N. With a club stopper over diamonds, you just guess something to do, gl!

Playing 1M 3C 3D as artificial makes sense, especially 1S 3C 3D because you'd like to be able to show 5-5 in the majors also, and you do have room to sort it all out if you use 3D as artificial. I have never played this though.

[rbforster]

jmc, on 2012-May-08, 13:58, said:

I am considering switching to invitational jump shifts instead of Bergen raises...I am playing this in a precision with 2/1 completely game forcing context.

I see you're considering this in a precision base with a forcing NT. I've thought a lot about this particular case and stuck with Bergen and other artificial jump raises rather than IJSs. Here were some of the issues:

1. You can miss fits in openers major with 2 card M support, esp Hx as you mention
2. You will have invite hands that are 6m-4OM where you don't want to bury a fit in OM
3. Bergen is a better preempt when opener is limited than in standard

Together this means you'll have invitational hands with 6m that will go through 1NT(f) anyway, so it seems better to find a way to handle those together with the "pure" IJS hands. Some suggestions along those lines:

1. It's precision, so you can pass the misfitting WJS hands and leave only invitational ones bidding 3m after 1N

2. Over 1♥-1N-2x, use the impossible 2♠ as a relay to separate 3m with an invite from 3m with a bust.

3. Over 1♠, I play 2N as a relay to 3♣ for various SJSs (3♣ is modified Jacoby). This means you can pass out the 3♣ relay with the ♣ WJS hand, and the ♦ WJS hand can pass or gamble 1N and try to bail out in 2♦. This leaves 1N(f)...3m as the IJS hands.

4. Over 1♠, you may not need Bergen as much for preemption (boss suit), so play IJS in spades only and take it slow with 2♠ on the weaker Bergen hand and bid 3♠ invitational with the better Bergen hand. You do lose the preemptive raise, but those are rare in precision anyway and less necessary in spades than hearts.

One last thought - i'm not sure what is causing you to reconsider Bergen, but if you keep Bergen, I've heard it's worth playing 1M-3M as a mixed raise instead of preemptive specifically in precision. I haven't quite figured out how this changes the rest of the Bergen structure however.

[jmc]

We have switched to a semi-forcing NT in all 4 seats. This works well with our 14-16 NT range and lets opener pass after 1M-1NT with most 5332 hands. I have really been surprised at how many hands we win after 1M-1NT all float. I have yet to lose mps even when responder had the 3-card limit raise, though this is scary. Removing the invitational jump shift from the semi-forcing NT feels a lot safer. At mps, I don't mind the gamble much, but at imps I think its pretty risky if p can have a good 11 with a 6-card suit. This is the main reason for switching away from Bergen type raises. If we were sticking with F 1NT, I don't think I'd change.

I appreciate your suggestions. I really like the 1M-3M mixed raise against good competition, but find that for the mps fields I am usually in, the 1S-3S preemptive raise still creates a problem for many pairs. In the 3rd bracket of a regional last year we played a pair where one partner dbld the 3M for take-out and his partner thought it was more "values' and left it in making. Playing the 1M-3M as mixed we just play that both 1M-2M can contain the preemptive raise.

[JLOGIC]

jmc, on 2012-May-10, 08:50, said:

Playing the 1M-3M as mixed we just play that both 1M-1N can contain the preemptive raise.

FYP.

Heh, I agreed with everything else in your post (not surprising I guess since I play 1-3 mixed, semi forcing NT, invitational jumpshifts and 14-16 NT). It is a very good structure imo. But with the very bad 4 card raises I think you'll do better to bid a semi forcing NT, it actually makes it much harder for the opps imo when they don't know you have a fit, and it makes it easier for partner if your 1-2 raise is never a terrible hand so that he can game try/bid game more.

[jogs]

*Strike this post. Will try again.
*Hands didn't appear correctly.

W ____ N ____ E ____ S
-------------------p------1♥
2♥----4♥----4♠ --- p
- p ------- X -- all pass

Both Norths choose to conceal their clubs from the other players.
If North had bid 4♣ (fit=showing), South would have known
about the two suited fit and competed with 5♥. It is not clear
to pass 5♠. 5♠X making 5 would still have won one imp
for N-S.
18 trumps and 20 tricks. 11 tricks in spades. 9 tricks in hearts.
20 HCPs for each side. E-W has 3 aces to N-S's 1.

[jogs]

Cohen and Bergen mislead the masses. With 4=3=2=4 facing
5=3=3=2 the expected number of tricks when your side holds
20 HCP is 8 2/3. With 4=3=2=4 facing 5=3=2=3 the expected
number of tricks is 8 1/3. The expected number of tricks is not 9
as they claim.
I prefer playing fit-showing jumps in both contested and uncontested
auctions.
♠ Axxx ♥ x ♦ xxx ♣ AKxxx
Opponents silent.
1♠ - 3♣
Although there is only 11 HCP, this hand has two aces, and one
king in the long suits. It also has a singleton in a side suit.
Opposite ♠ KQxxx ♥ Axx ♦ x ♣ Qxxx
these hands are a heavy favorite to make 6♠ with their perfect
fitting 11 opposite 11.
♠ Axxx ♥ x ♦ AKx ♣ J109xx
Only worth a 2♣ call. The points need to be in the long suits.
This hand would lose two clubs opposite the sample hand.
Also 5431 often plays one full trick better than 5422.
♠ Axxx ♥ xx ♦ xx ♣ AKxxx
is only worth a 2♣ call.

2012 USBC finals Nickell vs Diamond; board 78.

---

W __ N ___ E ___ S
------------------p-----1♥
2♥----4♥----4♠ --- p
- p ----- X -- all pass

Both Norths choose to conceal their clubs from the other players.
If North had bid 4♣ (fit=showing), South would have known
about the two suited fit and competed with 5♥. It is not clear
to pass 5♠. 5♠X making 5 would still have won one imp
for N-S.
18 trumps and 20 tricks. 11 tricks in spades. 9 tricks in hearts.
20 HCPs for each side. E-W has 3 aces to N-S's 1.

[awm]

I'm not sure I'd want to be in 5h here. In order to make 4s, declarer needs to bring in spades for one loser and also guess diamonds. Even a world-class declarer has a chance to go wrong?

In any case 5hx-2 saves only three imps (-300 vs -420) and loses a lot more if they were going down (-300 vs +50). I need declarer to be making the vast majority of the time to want to sacrifice and it seems more like 50-50?

[Cthulhu D]

JLOGIC, on 2012-May-10, 09:01, said:

FYP.

Heh, I agreed with everything else in your post (not surprising I guess since I play 1-3 mixed, semi forcing NT, invitational jumpshifts and 14-16 NT). It is a very good structure imo. But with the very bad 4 card raises I think you'll do better to bid a semi forcing NT, it actually makes it much harder for the opps imo when they don't know you have a fit, and it makes it easier for partner if your 1-2 raise is never a terrible hand so that he can game try/bid game more.

I'm going to ask a basic question despite it being expert class - what hands do you put through the semi forcing 1NT despite them having a fit? I'm playing the same methods so I generally stretch to raise to 2, but I see the logic in what you are saying. Is it just awful 4-5 counts with 4 card support?

[JLOGIC]

Cthulhu D, on 2012-May-10, 21:32, said:

I'm going to ask a basic question despite it being expert class - what hands do you put through the semi forcing 1NT despite them having a fit? I'm playing the same methods so I generally stretch to raise to 2, but I see the logic in what you are saying. Is it just awful 4-5 counts with 4 card support?

Yeah pretty much. I will also bid 1N with 3 card support and 0- a terrible 6ish (obv depending on the quality of the points, and really more like 4+-6 when vul since I would pass with 0-4 vul usually).

[dake50]

I am considering switching to invitational jump shifts instead of Bergen raises. What are your requirements in regards to a fit for partner's suit? i.e. 1S-3D, can 3D bidder have Hx of spades? Can he have two small? After the jump shift are new bids by opener game forcing? Any other suggestions for this method? I am playing this in a precision with 2/1 completely game forcing context. If anyone has links to other threads concerning this, I'd be much obliged if you'd share them.

***
What will handle those GF jump shifts?
Load up 2/1? Reserve one JS as catch-all force?
Rebids after JS invite redefined as now GF?

[dave_w]

dake50, on 2012-May-11, 08:04, said:

What will handle those GF jump shifts?
Load up 2/1? Reserve one JS as catch-all force?
Rebids after JS invite redefined as now GF?

This doesn't seem like questions for expert class bridge but w/e.
IJS means 2/1 is 100% GF - none of this Lawrence "except if you rebid your suit". GF JS bids 2x then 3x.
If you bid over an IJS that's GF