BBO Discussion Forums: Euro 2012 systems - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Euro 2012 systems

#1 User is offline   paulg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,062
  • Joined: 2003-April-26
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scottish Borders

Posted 2012-May-18, 08:22

Now that the system cards are available for the European Team Championships, save for Spain, I have been doing some quick counting of what is popular nowadays. There are 97 system cards currently available for the Open Series.

Basic system
32 - 5-card majors, short 1C (18 are playing T-Walsh)
27 - 5-card majors (1m=3+)
19 - Strong Club
13 - Multi-way Club (including Polish, Carrot, etc)
6 - Other (Magic Diamond, 4-card majors, Fantunes, 3xAcol)

1NT range
51 - Strong (15-17, 15-18)
16 - Intermediate (14-16, 14-17)
8 - weak/strong (12-14 in some positions, 15-17 in others)
7 - inter/strong (14-16 in some positions, 15-17 in others)
4 - weak (12-14)
14 - other combinations of ranges

2D openings
28 - multi
26 - weak-only multi
7 - weak
7 - Mexican (18-20 balanced)
7 - strong and artificial
4 - Precision 2D (11-15 three-suiter, short diamonds)
17 - other weak varieties (including 3xWilkosz)
1 - Flannery
The Beer Card

I don't work for BBO and any advice is based on my BBO experience over the decades
0

#2 User is offline   Mbodell 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,871
  • Joined: 2007-April-22
  • Location:Santa Clara, CA

Posted 2012-May-19, 00:49

I'm surprised transfer walsh is so popular. I'm surprised 14-16 is much more popular than 12-14 (or was most of the intermediate just a better disclosure of 14+-17?). No love for the weak nt. More than half the field plays some form of multi. Interesting that in the ACBL you'd rarely be allowed to play the 2D openers of the majority of the pairs (mid chart 6), even at the top national pair events, and that you could find yourself with difficulty playing the T-Walsh in a number of lesser events as well (mid chart). I don't think the ACBL will move multi to GCC or mid-2 any time soon, but I hope the next revision of the convention charts moves T-Walsh to GCC (and adds all seat drury to GCC too).
0

#3 User is offline   paulg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,062
  • Joined: 2003-April-26
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scottish Borders

Posted 2012-May-19, 01:37

I was surprised how popular the short 1C has become, with most of its supporters using the method to guarantee four (sometimes five) diamonds for the one diamond opener. I am mildly surprised that transfer responses are not even more popular with this group.

The Multi 2 has always been popular in Europe and the numbers using it remain roughly the same. The question is why do people play it - is it impossible to defend ("yes" is the ACBL answer, "no" is the answer for those who are used to it, "not really but we'll go wrong occasionally" is probably the real answer) or does it fill a hole in their system? I think most play it because they believe it lets them do more with two hearts/spades openers, either constructive weak twos or two-suited hands.

Of the unclassified two diamonds openers, almost all are not permitted in the ACBL :)

When classifying the notrump ranges I tried to discern their nominative range rather than their upgrade strategy, so 14+ to 17 was taken to mean 15-17. Playing a 14-16 notrump range fits well in strong club systems and others who open light, but these should really use 15-17 in 3/4 position so I was surprised that there were so many pure 14-16s.

Most of the unclassified notrump openers include mini- and weak-notrump in some positions.
The Beer Card

I don't work for BBO and any advice is based on my BBO experience over the decades
0

#4 User is offline   MickyB 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,290
  • Joined: 2004-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 2012-May-19, 06:49

I know it's not always possible to tell from a CC, but approximately what proportion of the short club pairs were opening 1D on all/most balanced hands with four diamonds?
0

#5 User is offline   bluecalm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,555
  • Joined: 2007-January-22

Posted 2012-May-19, 07:47

My very opinionated stance on it is:
I am not surprised by short club at all. Better minor doesn't make much sense in my opinion and wasn't ever (well, in modern era) popular at top level. This is European Championship so supposedly most of the field work at least some on their system and getting rid of better minor seems like first step to take. If anything I am surprised that significant part of the field still play it.
I am surprised by T-Walsh popularity though. While I think it's major improvement over "raw" standard systems adopting it requires quite a lot of work and system redesign (unless getting rid of bm when you just define 1D as 4+ and get instant improvement in most sequences without doing any work).

Quote

The Multi 2♦ has always been popular in Europe and the numbers using it remain roughly the same. The question is why do people play it


The answer usually given in Poland is: "yes, multi sucks a bit compared to natural 2M's but 2 suiter openings are too good to give up".I think this is good argument as being able to open 2H/S as this major + a minor is really powerful, although rare.
I think many pairs play combination of weak twos and multi (to open junk with multi and constructive 2M) which is surprising to me.
0

#6 User is offline   paulg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,062
  • Joined: 2003-April-26
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scottish Borders

Posted 2012-May-19, 10:29

View PostMickyB, on 2012-May-19, 06:49, said:

I know it's not always possible to tell from a CC, but approximately what proportion of the short club pairs were opening 1D on all/most balanced hands with four diamonds?

Without going through the CCs again, my recollection is that almost all the T-Walsh pairs opened 1 on all balanced hands and an even split for the rest, so that would make only 7 short 1 pairs opening 1 with a balanced with four diamonds.
The Beer Card

I don't work for BBO and any advice is based on my BBO experience over the decades
0

#7 User is offline   paulg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,062
  • Joined: 2003-April-26
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scottish Borders

Posted 2012-May-19, 10:35

View Postbluecalm, on 2012-May-19, 07:47, said:

The answer usually given in Poland is: "yes, multi sucks a bit compared to natural 2M's but 2 suiter openings are too good to give up".I think this is good argument as being able to open 2H/S as this major + a minor is really powerful, although rare.

I believe the view in Poland is that the two-suited openings should be 5-5 almost all the time, which is very different from the more popular Muiderberg approach of just guaranteeing 5-4. Both are popular.

2S Openers
38 - Weak
22 - Weak, 5 spades, 4+ minor
16 - Weak, 5 spades, 5 minor
10 - constructive weak two (8-11, 10-13)
4 - Strong Two Bid (8 playing tricks)
7 - Other (including one Brown Sticker)
The Beer Card

I don't work for BBO and any advice is based on my BBO experience over the decades
0

#8 User is offline   bluecalm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,555
  • Joined: 2007-January-22

Posted 2012-May-19, 12:30

Quote

I believe the view in Poland is that the two-suited openings should be 5-5 almost all the time


It was the case up to recently but now many more pairs play it as 5-4+, especially non-vul. I would say always 5-5 is still standard and the style I prefer but 5-4+ is quite common.
0

#9 User is offline   mgoetze 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,942
  • Joined: 2005-January-28
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cologne, Germany
  • Interests:Sleeping, Eating

Posted 2012-May-19, 12:45

View Postpaulg, on 2012-May-19, 10:35, said:

4 - Strong Two Bid (8 playing tricks)

Oh wow.... you're sure this is open, not seniors?
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
    -- Bertrand Russell
0

#10 User is offline   paulg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,062
  • Joined: 2003-April-26
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scottish Borders

Posted 2012-May-19, 13:43

View Postpaulg, on 2012-May-19, 10:35, said:

4 - Strong Two Bid (8 playing tricks)

View Postmgoetze, on 2012-May-19, 12:45, said:

Oh wow.... you're sure this is open, not seniors?


bilde-graversen (Denmark)
ferreira-neto (Portugal)
lara-capucho (Portugal)
piedra-wildavsky (Switzerland)
The Beer Card

I don't work for BBO and any advice is based on my BBO experience over the decades
0

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users