[MrAce]

Fluffy, on 2012-June-20, 04:09, said:

The European Championship is gone fo me, and although my hopes at the start were to finnish 13-14th with this weak team, we did really poor in the end making less than 20 vps in the last 5 matches added.

summing things together, and taking into acount passed championships I think I have an stamina problem, ...................

Are you sure thats the main problem ? Can you confidently say that if you had NO STAMINA issues you would have made it to first 9 in the group ?

I am not trying to be hard on you, or try to imply something bad. I just dont want you to waste your energy for fixing something that may not actually be the problem or main problem. Due to your age and location in the world, your experience, your card play your logic still needs a lot of work to be done imo.

Do not compare yourself with American young players and do not go hard on yourself. They started too early, they were mentored by best of best in the world either officially or by just chat over the years . Before they won vs them all one by one as they did in US national team trials, they played with and against them and probably beaten zillion times. So perhaps all you need to do is patiently try bring your knowledge/skill/confidence/ecperience to peak level.

You are talking about some serious money from the posts you made in the past, as a pro player. Then you must make investments. You owe this to yourself if being a bridge pro is your goal and if you wanna be one of the top ones. Make sure to spare money so that you can play in EVERY US nationals, even if no one hires you for a while. This is where u get to play vs best of best and this is where you learn how deep the rabbit hole goes. Top players from all over the world playing in USA nationals.

You are a bright, smart and talented and a very honest young man, i have so much confident that you will reach your goals one day if you set them and take correct actions in order to reach them. Dont let this result make you feel down, you know, i know and a lot of good players here knows that you are not the same Gozalo you were before this tournament. You gained a lot regardless of your scorecard.

[JLOGIC]

Phil, on 2012-June-20, 15:36, said:

Who regularly plays 64 boards a day?

Even if I did on a regular basis, I'd be tired - just like I'd be tired running a 10K every day

Meckwell frequently play 72 a day for multiple weeks (except on monday when they'd only play 24 but they would also use that day to fly). Grue/Hurd/Kran are 72/day people at regionals. If you play mornings and are not 6 handed you will play 72/day.

They have also done it for a long time. Meck has what, 70k points and is like early or mid 50s? He has played a lot of bridge forever.

That said, very few people play 64/day regularly, but all the top teams are 6 handed in the spingol/vandy. I would certainly be tired if I had to anchor for more than one day in the spingold, I like having a set off. I was not trying to criticize the fact that you were tired, I was just saying that it is not a coincedence that you are tired when you play more boards than you usually do (or if I was tired, or if anyone else was tired). I was just trying to prove my point that being conditioned to play a lot is the most important thing by far in terms of bridge stamina.

[JLOGIC]

But Phil, my point is I don't think you'd play much worse on the 64th board compared to the first if you were used to playing 64/day. If out of shape, overweight people who drink and smoke their entire life can get used to it I'm sure you could. But it would take a lot of getting used to.

Phil is very seksi and in shape btw

[Phil]

JLOGIC, on 2012-June-20, 19:07, said:

But Phil, my point is I don't think you'd play much worse on the 64th board compared to the first if you were used to playing 64/day. If out of shape, overweight people who drink and smoke their entire life can get used to it I'm sure you could. But it would take a lot of getting used to.

Phil is very seksi and in shape btw

...

[blackshoe]

Someone said to me once 'Of course I'm in perfect shape! "Round" is a perfect shape!'

[Mbodell]

Fluffy, on 2012-June-20, 04:09, said:

I suspect bad results have something to do with this, and also the fact we never play more than 28 boards a day in Spain (normally 24) is probably a bad factor on my side. But there is nothing I can do about these 2.

How does this work? I agree with Justin that it is obvious that this is the problem, and I'm not sure if playing online works to solve it (it is different, and may or may not build up the bridge stamina the same way).

But I'm just curious, how do Spanish bridge tournaments work? Do they only play 24 (or 28) boards even on the weekend? Is that two sessions a day of 12 boards?

In the US people play 24-28 boards a session, and then there is nearly always 2 sessions a day near me for normal club games and sectionals (the smaller level of tournaments). Regional events usually have 3 sessions a day, and nationals have 3 full sessions, plus the zip KO for 4 sessions a day. 100 boards a day for 10 days if you want at a US Nationals (some days maybe only ~85 if you lose early in the zips)! Most people only play 2 sessions, but you can play more.

But only 24 hands a day seems like such a small amount.

[Fluffy]

MrAce, on 2012-June-20, 16:54, said:

I am not trying to be hard on you, or try to imply something bad. I just dont want you to waste your energy for fixing something that may not actually be the problem or main problem. Due to your age and location in the world, your experience, your card play your logic still needs a lot of work to be done imo.

Thanx, playing more regularilly against tough oppposition would also help me surelly because experience helps to discard posibilities and saves energy. I made mistakes trying to play fast for not giving away info for example. But playing my best wouldn't make us reach next stage lol, not even close.

But in less than 2 months we play in Olympiads, and our team who finished 5th in the groups 4 years ago has improved from 5 players to 6 players, this means only 1 system to remember, and rest 1/3 matches instead of 1/5, so I expect that we play a bit better than before. I also started the tournament in China exausted after 2 days in bed-toilet for eating the wrong water.

But my main problem really is that at the end I was unable to concentrate, you really know the difference when you defend and know where every card lies, then you need to stop and think to count every card, and in the end you just play intuitive because you can't count.


I would love to play on nationals, in fact for the last 2 years we have made plans to go, but one of the team is scared of playing BAM with no experience in the matter, then summer collides with Dauville festival and so on, in the end we never get it to work, maybe I should forget about my team, find some teammates online and go with my partner. In fact I even tried this once.


Lille starts August 8th, and most of my students are on vacations on July after the Biarritz tournament. This means I have a lot of spare time to train. Go to the gym, walk and play a lot of boards a day seems to be the recomendation. And I will try to do it.

During tournaments I drink a lot of cocacola (half a litre per 20 board match). Maye too much because at some point my performance drops as mentioned before. Maybe I should drink less, or use it only during second match of the day. (help on this point wanted)


I still think health is an issue, because I still remember my best tournament ever came in NEC cup 3 years ago after I spent the week before the tournament skiing in switzerland as much as I could (and I really made my money be worth it there)


EDIT: I also remember the 2008 NEC cup I started the tournament playing awful. I recovered in the mid swiss after a really hopeless play, I punched a wall with my fist in rage and ended playing great, wich led to us qualifying and finishing second, that was a swiss, and saving energies worked wonders, I even had a star moment beating the dutch team who didn't qualify in the end after making 7♥ were at the other table went down on this board http://www.bridgebas...__1#entry255380

So administrating my energies might be also worth something. Obviously on a swiss qualifier you want to play your best in the end, but on round robin I can perhaps do something better as well.

[Fluffy]

Mbodell, on 2012-June-20, 21:21, said:

But I'm just curious, how do Spanish bridge tournaments work? Do they only play 24 (or 28) boards even on the weekend? Is that two sessions a day of 12 boards?

one session a day, of 24-26-28 boards (normally 26 in 3 seesion tournaments, 28 in 2 day). There is no tournament with more than 1 session a day except for the team championships (8 qualifiers and 1 final event with the 8 qualified) and even on those, there is only 64/80 boards on saturday but a lot less the other days. Bridge is social thing here. People travel to tournaments to do tourism, play golf, meet friends, etc, etc, playing bridge its a secondary thing they do from 18:00 to 21:30.

[Cthulhu D]

Fluffy, on 2012-June-21, 02:23, said:

I still think health is an issue, because I still remember my best tournament ever came in NEC cup 3 years ago after I spent the week before the tournament skiing in switzerland as much as I could (and I really made my money be worth it there)

It's been proven that fitness increases your mental acuity, alertness and memory, particularly in endurance situations. Given that these are skills critical for bridge, I think it is unquestionable that fitness will help. Losing 10 kg and improving your aerobic fitness is always going to improve your performance significantly.

[JLOGIC]

Cthulhu D, on 2012-June-21, 02:51, said:

It's been proven that fitness increases your mental acuity, alertness and memory, particularly in endurance situations. Given that these are skills critical for bridge, I think it is unquestionable that fitness will help. Losing 10 kg and improving your aerobic fitness is always going to improve your performance significantly.

Imagine how good Meckstroth and Fantoni and Helgemo and Hamman could REALLY be!

[gnasher]

Find another pair to make your team up to eight, and have a 60-board practice game, rotating the pairs so that you play with everyone as teammates. Put some money on it, with the awards on a per-IMP basis, so that everyone takes every board seriously.

[Fluffy]

gnasher, on 2012-June-21, 03:22, said:

Find another pair to make your team up to eight, and have a 60-board practice game, rotating the pairs so that you play with everyone as teammates. Put some money on it, with the awards on a per-IMP basis, so that everyone takes every board seriously.

I though of something like this, but finding the time would be really tough for 4 pairs, maybe 2 pair game against BBO field is possible though. A lot random, but evens in the long long run.

EDIT: Now I think of it, we shoudl switch positions at half time, regular pairs against randoms will tend to sit NS, so the field is umbalanced towards NS

If it wasn't that my partner is livig in Guatemala at the moment, I'd like to do this offline, some strong spannish pairs were willing to pay 400€ entry fee to play the team trials against us, so why not join our trainings with money and maybe lose a bit on average.

[rhm]

gnasher, on 2012-June-20, 06:30, said:

When we call something a "marathon" in England, it means we're going to play 170 boards.

And the play is world-class once the board numbers reach 3 digits?
It is of course understood that the senses of an expert in auto mode are still way above what an intermediate tournament player will ever accomplish.
Reaching the finishing line in a marathon within 3 hours is fine, doing it after 6 hours is boring.

Rainer Herrmann

[rhm]

A major factor is whether you are used to this sort of challenge or not.
If you were not frequently exposed to this level of competition before you have little chance of avoiding this problem.
This does not mean you should not prepare, but when you go to a competition, where you know you are an underdog, this type of failure is hard to avoid.

Rainer Herrmann

[the hog]

Whenever I played in the NOT I usually played all matches, even if playing in a 6 man team. If we played a really weak team partner and I wouyd drop out, but after day 2 this was usually not an option. Plenty of sleep and only a glass of wine or two at the end of the evening were important. Confidence is also important, When playing Balicki, for example, we looked forward to this rather than feeling trepidation. It also helps if you play a system you know perfectly and know that neither you nor partner will forget it and make mistakes. This last point cannot be underestimated. I well remember a relay auction involving a double reverse relay against the Poles. They were convinced we had got it wrong - we hadn't - and the whole mood at the table changed after this auction when they realised we knew what we were doing.
Seriously, if you KNOW pd has got it right and he is equally sure YOU have, this helps a lot. I truly cannot remember the last relay mistake I have made. This involves a LT of bidding practice. we did at least 8-10 hours a week before events like the NOT.

[the hog]

JLOGIC, on 2012-June-21, 03:15, said:

Imagine how good Meckstroth and Fantoni and Helgemo and Hamman could REALLY be!

roflmao!!!!!!!

[gnasher]

rhm, on 2012-June-21, 04:20, said:

And the play is world-class once the board numbers reach 3 digits?

No, not at all. The standard of play in the Young Chelsea Marathon is fairly poor by around 4am. I wasn't suggesting this as training method, just making an irrelevant comment on how the word "marathon" is used in different places.

[bluecalm]

I share JL sentiment. I played chess at competitive level as a junior and while coaches liked to talk about regular exercises, getting sleep and good diet the people who delivered at the end of the day were the one who played a lot of chess and for a long time, often being overweight, habitual drinkers and partying to late night/early morning.

There is hope though, the top spot in chess was occupied by someone who took psychical training very seriously (Kasparov) for about 20 years and most top 10 players these days are quite fit.
Chess is different than bridge though. In chess you need to concentrate for much longer and don't have many breaks while in bridge you have a lot of long breaks and short moments when concentration is needed while the whole thing lasts longer. So I guess stamina needed for bridge is of different kind (more similar to long blitz chess tournament)

[neilkaz]

Fluffy, on 2012-June-21, 02:29, said:

one session a day, of 24-26-28 boards (normally 26 in 3 seesion tournaments, 28 in 2 day). There is no tournament with more than 1 session a day except for the team championships (8 qualifiers and 1 final event with the 8 qualified) and even on those, there is only 64/80 boards on saturday but a lot less the other days. Bridge is social thing here. People travel to tournaments to do tourism, play golf, meet friends, etc, etc, playing bridge its a secondary thing they do from 18:00 to 21:30.

Things may be different in Madrid than they are in Chicago, but both are big cities and I'd expect lots of bridge in Madrid. I realize that there are cultural differences and when you're having dinner in Madrid I'm likely getting ready for bed. But anyhow, aren't there day games, at least on Saturdays? Couldn't you go to one club to play a day game, and then to another to play the evening game? That should give you about 50 boards/day. If not, then play 20 or 30 boards online vs good competition and then go to the club for the evening game sometimes.

.. neilkaz ..

[jallerton]

Fluffy, on 2012-June-21, 02:29, said:

one session a day, of 24-26-28 boards (normally 26 in 3 seesion tournaments, 28 in 2 day). There is no tournament with more than 1 session a day except for the team championships (8 qualifiers and 1 final event with the 8 qualified) and even on those, there is only 64/80 boards on saturday but a lot less the other days. Bridge is social thing here. People travel to tournaments to do tourism, play golf, meet friends, etc, etc, playing bridge its a secondary thing they do from 18:00 to 21:30.

Do you have many national tournaments in which people from all parts of the country travel to participate? Spain is not a small country, so travelling from one end to the other is a long way to go to play just one session per day. It would certainly be helpful to the national team if Spanish tournaments were to change their format to 2(+) sessions per day.

Perhaps you need to play in more foreign tournaments, but you don't necessarily have to go all the way to North America; there are plenty of decent standard tournaments in Europe.

Playing lots of boards on BBO might help the auto-pilot, but many people don't concentrate at the same level when playing online, so it may not be the best way of practising. If you do use BBO, play against people you know to be decent partnerships.

The slightly unusual thing about the European Championships is that each set is of 20 boards. With screens, that is 2 hours and 50 minutes without a break. It's definitely worth replicating this format in practice matches, so that you can learn to concentrate as well on board 20 as you can on board 2.