[BunnyGo]

Ok, so taking a year off from playing has severely dulled my sense of "what other players would bid". I held (2nd seat all red):

A7632, AJ42, T72, K

and thought it such a bad 12 count that pass would be reasonable since I could easily compete later--so I did. Lose 4 IMPs. All but one person I asked afterwards immediately said "Aces and majors, I bid." So, I'm here to ask, "how far do people take this?"

Hand 1) T7632, A942, A32, K

Hand 2) A943, A7632, 832, Q

Hand 3) T742, A7632, A32, Q

I'll start with 3 hands. I think these all have huge deficiencies, but fit the rule "2 aces and both majors". Do you open these in 1st/2nd (if colors matter, please say so)?

Is there really no hand with 10+ points, 2 aces, and 9 cards in the majors that people wouldn't open? This was the impression I was given yesterday.

In hands 2 and 3, if you pass would having the club K make the difference in your mind? The 9 or T being the J make the difference?

[rhm]

I am not speaking for a majority, certainly not on this forum , but I would pass hand 2 and 3.
If you change the ♣Q to the ♣K I open
I might also open JTxx Axxxx, Axx Q But I probably pass Jxxx Axxxx Axx Q in first or second position.

It is right to downgrade singleton honors except the ace. The tricky issue is not to overdo it. You still need to look at the whole hand.

Rainer Herrmann

[perko90]

I'd pass hands 2 & 3 in a heartbeat. Hand 1 I"d consider bidding 1st seat NV, especially because it makes a bad S overcall if it comes around to me. I consider myself middle-of-road as far as opening goes. In gen, I like rule of 20 + 2 QTs.

[inquiry]

A7632, AJ42, T72, K
Hand 1) T7632, A942, A32, K
Hand 2) A943, A7632, 832, Q
Hand 3) T742, A7632, A32, Q


I would gladly open the hand you passed. As for the other hands, glad could never be attached to opening them. but let's consider them from a Zar point perspective. Starting off with making the singleton club a small club....

All three hands would then have 12 points for two aces, 10 points for the five card major, and 3 points for the other four card suit minus the club singleton. This comes to 25 Zar points. Those who blindly follow Zar's point and recommendations would open 25 Zar point hand "when holding four or more spades". And that evaluation ignores the valuation of the singleton club honor (treating it as a small card).

How about rule of 20 people? Hand one has 11 hcp, and 9 cards in the long suits. So maybe they would open it but not the other two (assuming no downgrade for the singleton King). Rule of 19 and the very aggressive rule of 18 people would open hand 1 as well.

So I dare say there will be people who do, in fact, open all of these hands. I would open hand 1 and might (depending upon partner and state of game) open hand 2. I would never open hand 3. I would be willing to apologize if we get into trouble on either of these when I opened them and things took a bad turn.

[nigel_k]

I would open the hand you held, but not any of the others. Hand 1 might be ok if you have prior agreement that you open light.

It's a pity you didn't post any examples that are close in strength to the actual hand. For example, I would consider A7632, AT42, T72, K to be a bare minimum opening. Without the ♥10 I would pass.

[Cyberyeti]

Would open the first happily, the second is very close, and not touch the 3rd and 4th with a 10 foot pole.

[Mbodell]

I'd open them all playing strong club and limited openers. Playing 2/1 with F1nt I'd open them all in 3rd seat, but in 2nd red I'd only open the OP and hand 1.

[BunnyGo]

nigel_k, on 2012-July-22, 14:14, said:

It's a pity you didn't post any examples that are close in strength to the actual hand. For example, I would consider A7632, AT42, T72, K to be a bare minimum opening. Without the ♥10 I would pass.

I got enough responses f2f that made it clear that anything considered "close" to the hand I passed was to be opened. I was trying to post hands that I expected to skirt a border of pass and not pass.

Thanks so far for the responses...very helpful.

[Zelandakh]

Hand 0 I would always open - count the ♣K as 2 and you are still comfortably "Rule of 20" with an easy rebid. Hand 1 I would be willing to open playing a light opening system but not in standard methods. I could not imagine opening Hands 2 and 3 in any mainstream method; not only are they very light but one can also expect to have an unappetising rebid. Switch the spades and hearts and I would expect to see more considering an opening for Hand 2.

[keylime]

Even in a limited bid system I would think about passing 1 and 3. Suit quality matters when opening light.

[aguahombre]

keylime, on 2012-July-23, 10:12, said:

Even in a limited bid system I would think about passing 1 and 3. Suit quality matters when opening light.

Maybe. But MikeBodell doesn't agree, so you two might want to come to an understanding before partnering up.....or you and anyone with whom you agree to use a strong club.

[keylime]

Definitely. My concern would be that in a GF auction my hand doesn't offer much outside of some controls if pard is on a minimum GF hand with no fit. It is a style question.

[Mbodell]

keylime, on 2012-July-23, 13:53, said:

Definitely. My concern would be that in a GF auction my hand doesn't offer much outside of some controls if pard is on a minimum GF hand with no fit. It is a style question.

Part of it depends what a minimum GF is. If you open light, you might need a great 13 or normal 14 to gf instead of the great 11 or normal 12 that most people gf with. But a lot of hands end up below game, and a poor hcp game can still make with lucky layout, misdefense, etc.

[Cthulhu D]

I'd open hands 0 and 1 constructively at the one level, and I'd open an pre-emptive Ekrens 2H with hands 2 and 3. I doubt I am representative of most players, but at the club everyone would open the hand you had and I suspect quite a few would open the first.