[jmcw]

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Just checking how most would bid?.
With no great conviction, here's what I would do.

1. 2♠
2. 3♠
3. 3♥

[han]

2S, 3S, Double.

I wouldn't double when playing with Fluffy in an individual.

[aguahombre]

jmcw, on 2012-August-31, 04:16, said:

1. 2♠
2. 3♠
3. 3♥

This look about right. Number 3 is the interesting one. 3H is aggressive, but with the 30-point deck we should go for it. Not fond of a responsive double at the two-level with 4 cards in spades. Give me one less of those kings and I choose 2S, same as #1.

[han]

I realize that this is the A/I forum, but partners don't only double when they have 4 spades AND a singleton heart. Sometimes they have only 3 spades, sometimes they have a doubleton heart, sometimes they have both. And sometimes they have a heart honor. You are misleading yourself with the 30-point deck comment.

I don't know what the problem with the responsive double is. I will double and then bid 3S. That shows four and seems right on values. If that is too fancy for you, why don't you bid 3S? Forcing to game is just too much imo.

[aguahombre]

A simple disagreement about what a responsive double in the auction:

(1H) X (2H) X shows.

This reference, for instance, addresses the specific auction above. In different cases, a responsive double certainly must be used with 4 cards in the focus major(s).

Forum readers now have two styles to choose from. We happen to like the one in the reference, but with partnership discussion the extended RX could work fine.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2012-August-31, 07:41

[TWO4BRIDGE]

han, on 2012-August-31, 06:39, said:

I don't know what the problem with the responsive double is.

The problem is that a Responsive DBL in this auction shows the MINORS.

( 1M ) - X - ( 2M ) - X = minors

If you have the other major ... just bid it at some level .

[han]

It was not my intention to confuse or offend anybody. Root and Pavlicek are excellent writers and their books have been greatly appreciated by beginning bridge players for many decades. I would double because I think it is best to use these doubles more flexibly, but if you are not comfortable doubling with 4 cards in the other major then please don't.

[han]

This thread reminds me of Justin's comment in another thread, "If I lead a low card, return my suit, if I lead a high card, switch".

There is a lot to be said for clear rules. But in my opinion there is also something to be said for flexibility, and for thinking outside of the box. I notice also in my own environment a number of older players who treat the younger generation's love for the flexible double with fear and loathing.

[jmcw]

han, on 2012-August-31, 06:39, said:

I realize that this is the A/I forum, but partners don't only double when they have 4 spades AND a singleton heart. Sometimes they have only 3 spades, sometimes they have a doubleton heart, sometimes they have both. And sometimes they have a heart honor. You are misleading yourself with the 30-point deck comment.

I don't know what the problem with the responsive double is. I will double and then bid 3S. That shows four and seems right on values. If that is too fancy for you, why don't you bid 3S? Forcing to game is just too much imo.

The 3244 hand was a key focus of my partner's discussion last night. Assuming we X as you suggest how do you see it going from there.

[jmcw]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-August-31, 07:41, said:

The problem is that a Responsive DBL in this auction shows the MINORS.

( 1M ) - X - ( 2M ) - X = minors

If you have the other major ... just bid it at some level .

What about 2NT, would it be good/bad here?, or some other?

[aguahombre]

jmcw, on 2012-August-31, 08:40, said:

What about 2NT, would it be good/bad here?, or some other?

Good question. We "beginners or old people" would use 2NT for 5+5+minors and the RX for the more balanced hands.

As for the 5-4's in the minors, we would RX with 3 spades and probably choose 2NT without.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2012-August-31, 08:49

[lalldonn]

My answers are the same as han's but I would word my support of the double even more strongly. It seems quite obvious to me, and I expect partner to bid 2♠ over it almost any time he holds four spades. If he bids 2NT to ask for a minor I will bid 3♦ (and avoiding a 4-3 spade fit at the 3 level on an auction like that is the main reason I would double, also keeping partner from needing to guess how many spades I have if I jump to 3♠ directly on this hand). If the opponents bid 3♥ on my left I can balance with 3♠ anyway. I fail to see a downside?

Unfortunately not every bridge book in print was written in 2012, so some of them that may even be very good have information that one might reconsider or that may not fit all sets of current agreements.

[jillybean]

edit: removed nonsense.

[Phil]

All these rules about responsive doubles LOL. Gotta fill the bridge classes somehow I suppose.

Here's a few...

- I deny FIVE spades
- I have below average ODR
- 2N is sensibly played as minors if you like

(preparing my syllabus now)

[Hanoi5]

I would have bid 2♠, 2♠, 3♠. I thought the double denied 4♠, but it would be much better it if didn't.

[ggwhiz]

Put me down for 2♠. 3♠ and double

Agreeing to use double on #3 frees up the 3♠ bid on #2 to mean "weakly invitational" ie. on shape instead of power. If I remember right, that concept was written up by Eric Kokish.

Not that the double on #3 would go float but if they get frisky to the 3 level pard will like knowing the difference in my hand type as well as the difference between bidding 2♠ on hands 1 AND 2 that could even have 2 fewer spades in #2.

[MrAce]

2♠
4♠
DBL

[JLOGIC]

Thanks timo, thought I was nuts reading this thread, I would bid 4S all day on hand 2. Having 3 hearts is such a huge difference from having Kxxxxx xx Kx xxx (where I'd just bid 3S), it is not only an extra winner, but it makes it that much more likely partner has a stiff heart (and makes 4333 or 43(42) impossible). I realize partner can bid his own stiff heart, but 4S is a good pressure bid, your LHO is likely to have short spades and maybe 6 hearts or maybe 5-5 or whatever and won't be sure whether to bid or not. 3S lets him get a 4m bid in or whatever, so I think there is a lot of value in bidding 4S directly even on hands where parnter will bid 4S himself after 3S.

[the hog]

2S, 3S MPS 4S IMPs, X for me.

[Antrax]

JLOGIC, on 2012-August-31, 15:01, said:

Thanks timo, thought I was nuts reading this thread, I would bid 4S all day on hand 2. Having 3 hearts is such a huge difference from having Kxxxxx xx Kx xxx (where I'd just bid 3S), it is not only an extra winner, but it makes it that much more likely partner has a stiff heart (and makes 4333 or 43(42) impossible). I realize partner can bid his own stiff heart, but 4S is a good pressure bid, your LHO is likely to have short spades and maybe 6 hearts or maybe 5-5 or whatever and won't be sure whether to bid or not. 3S lets him get a 4m bid in or whatever, so I think there is a lot of value in bidding 4S directly even on hands where parnter will bid 4S himself after 3S.

~counts the beans~
So what do you do when partner's X catches you with a 13-count and a spade suit? Do all strong hands go through a cue bid?