[gnasher]

---

You lead ♦K. Partner plays ♦10, standard count, and declarer plays ♦8. How do you defend?

[PhilKing]

I don't know if partner has: ♠xxx ♥xxx ♦Tx ♣ Qxxxx

Where I need to just give partner his ruff. Or:

♠xxx♥xxx♦QTxx♣QTx

Where I need to switch to a low trump, with or without cashing a second diamond.

I don't agree with the lead. I would have led the ace, but it's a bit of a reach for partner to discourage with QTxx. I'm not a fan of king for count. Against major suit games, I've been toying with leading the ace from AKX and the king from AKxx and giving attitute in both cases - it works a treat here.

[rhm]

PhilKing, on 2012-October-11, 04:47, said:

I don't know if partner has: ♠xxx ♥xxx ♦Tx ♣ Qxxxx

Where I need to just give partner his ruff. Or:

♠xxx♥xxx♦QTxx♣QTx

Where I need to switch to a low trump, with or without cashing a second diamond.

I don't agree with the lead. I would have led the ace, but it's a bit of a reach for partner to discourage with QTxx. I'm not a fan of king for count. Against major suit games, I've been toying with leading the ace from AKX and the king from AKxx and giving attitute in both cases - it works a treat here.

Or:

♠9xx♥xxx♦QTxx♣xxx

where my low trump switch would let an unmakable contract slip through.
Please enlighten us how your clever carding is able to distinguish those two holdings.

Rainer Herrmann

[karlson]

I find it very hard to believe that declarer bid 4♠ on a 6-card suit missing the QJT(9). That doesn't solve his minor suit lengths, but perhaps partner would have tried to get to 3♣ with five good clubs? I'd go with the trump.

[PhilKing]

rhm, on 2012-October-11, 08:14, said:

Or:

♠9xx♥xxx♦QTxx♣xxx

where my low trump switch would let an unmakable contract slip through.
Please enlighten us how your clever carding is able to distinguish those two holdings.

Rainer Herrmann

Assuming partner is not an absolute drooler, he will encourage diamonds when he holds no high card outside diamonds and notices he has the spade nine.

Is that enlightening enough?

[rhm]

PhilKing, on 2012-October-11, 08:36, said:

Assuming partner is not an absolute drooler, he will encourage diamonds when he holds no high card outside diamonds and notices he has the spade nine.

Is that enlightening enough?

And when he holds the ♣Q and no spade nine he will discourage.
What a clever partner!

I admit I do not play at this enlightening level nor do my partners have this sort of hindsight.

Rainer Herrmann

[PhilKing]

rhm, on 2012-October-11, 09:08, said:

And when he holds the ♣Q and no spade nine he will discourage.
What a clever partner!

I admit I do not play at this enlightening level nor do my partners have this sort of hindsight.

Rainer Herrmann

Oh dear. You make me very sad for some reason.

[rhm]

karlson, on 2012-October-11, 08:31, said:

I find it very hard to believe that declarer bid 4♠ on a 6-card suit missing the QJT(9). That doesn't solve his minor suit lengths, but perhaps partner would have tried to get to 3♣ with five good clubs? I'd go with the trump.

If we trust declarer with seven spades to the AK we can beat declarer if his clubs are no better than AQ9.
This means cashing our red suit tops before playing a third diamond.
However, if declarer is 7=0=2=4 with clubs no better than AQ9x then we need to cash our diamonds and switch to the spade queen!

I am at a loss how to find out except probability-wise or what might get you into the newspaper.

Rainer Herrmann

Edit:
If partner has 4 diamonds, which seem likely, he must have the ♦Q
What looks now best to me is to play a low diamond at trick 2. Partner's trump switch should beat the contract in both of the above cases and seems to work in practically all cases where partner has four diamonds.

Rainer Herrmann

[ahydra]

Must be missing something - cash DA, play a 3rd diamond. Decl ruffs, draws trumps and plays heart to K. Win ace, return another heart, hope partner has ♣Qxx or ♣Kxx and covers the ten.

Doesn't that cover all bases? If partner has only 2 diamonds, he ruffs the third round. If he has ♠9xx (unlikely) then decl must lose a trump. If he has neither of the above and no club honour you were doomed anyway.

ahydra

[PhilKing]

ahydra, on 2012-October-11, 11:01, said:

Must be missing something - cash DA, play a 3rd diamond. Decl ruffs, draws trumps and plays heart to K. Win ace, return another heart, hope partner has ♣Qxx or ♣Kxx and covers the ten.

Doesn't that cover all bases? If partner has only 2 diamonds, he ruffs the third round. If he has ♠9xx (unlikely) then decl must lose a trump. If he has neither of the above and no club honour you were doomed anyway.

ahydra

Why would declarer draw trumps?

And why would you exit with a heart?

And why wouldn't declarer claim when you exit a heart?

[rhm]

ahydra, on 2012-October-11, 11:01, said:

Must be missing something - cash DA, play a 3rd diamond. Decl ruffs, draws trumps and plays heart to K. Win ace, return another heart, hope partner has ♣Qxx or ♣Kxx and covers the ten.

Doesn't that cover all bases? If partner has only 2 diamonds, he ruffs the third round. If he has ♠9xx (unlikely) then decl must lose a trump. If he has neither of the above and no club honour you were doomed anyway.

ahydra

You do.
If you "return another heart" declarer discards 2 club loser on the hearts and if necessary finesses in clubs, making at least 6 trump tricks, 2 hearts and 2 club tricks.
In case you consider ducking the heart, declarer will play hearts before drawing trumps.
That it is partner, who is short in diamonds, looks unlikely to me.

Rainer Herrmann

[dwar0123]

PhilKing, on 2012-October-11, 11:05, said:

Why would declarer draw trumps?

And why would you exit with a heart?

And why wouldn't declarer claim when you exit a heart?

ahydra thinks he is behind the dummy. A frequent mistake I still often make due to the inconsistent way in which the hand viewer displays the hand when only two directions are shown. Though I have made this mistake so often I always triple check now

[gszes]

a carding thought---declarers distribution is usually way more important then hcp if there
is a suit in dummy that can be used for discards. After getting standard count If I continue
the suit with the A I want p to first give me count in the long suit if there is one otherwise give
suit preference. In this case trick 2 p will signal odd or even number of hearts and we will do
the best we can with that information available. The only downside to this is I have to be fairly
certain p has enough of the suit led to make signalling possible. In this case it is unlikely
p started with Tx in dia.

[ahydra]

gah let me post a putative full hand. Chances are the dodgy hand diagram did mess my thinking up. (Interestingly on IE it shows up as four hands, two of them blank, and everything in the right place)

---

So we start with 3 rounds of diamonds. Declarer plays a heart before drawing trumps - we have to win the ace, then we exit a club (works if partner has either ♣Q or ♣K) and win a club trick at the end decl ruffs his club loser -.- So we have to switch to a trump instead of 3rd diamond. Beginning to see it now! (And it must be a small trump first, so declarer can't win the 2nd top spade in dummy and cash hearts)

A lot of it seems to be down to guessing the heart position? In which case gszes' carding agreement would be a useful one to have. I worry about declarer having 7222 because you'd never guess he had 2 hearts.

Then there's the clubs, but I think if you hold up the ♣J for one round then that ♣10 is no longer a problem, and declarer can't succeed even with AK9x, provided we can prevent him from ruffing.

Am too tired to consider all the permutations right now. Does partner need the ♣K, I wonder?

ahydra

[rhm]

ahydra, on 2012-October-11, 16:32, said:

gah let me post a putative full hand. Chances are the dodgy hand diagram did mess my thinking up. (Interestingly on IE it shows up as four hands, two of them blank, and everything in the right place)

---

So we start with 3 rounds of diamonds. Declarer plays a heart before drawing trumps - we have to win the ace, then we exit a club (works if partner has either ♣Q or ♣K) and win a club trick at the end decl ruffs his club loser -.- So we have to switch to a trump instead of 3rd diamond. Beginning to see it now! (And it must be a small trump first, so declarer can't win the 2nd top spade in dummy and cash hearts)

A lot of it seems to be down to guessing the heart position? In which case gszes' carding agreement would be a useful one to have. I worry about declarer having 7222 because you'd never guess he had 2 hearts.

Then there's the clubs, but I think if you hold up the ♣J for one round then that ♣10 is no longer a problem, and declarer can't succeed even with AK9x, provided we can prevent him from ruffing.

Am too tired to consider all the permutations right now. Does partner need the ♣K, I wonder?

ahydra

In your layout the contratct can not be beaten, because even if you switch to trumps declarer can ruff his club loser, making 7 trumps in hand, one ruff and 2 club tricks.
Change declarers clubs to AQx and declare can not reach dummy for the club finesse before ruffing clubs.
However, 3 rounds of diamonds will not do, because declarer can endplay you with a heart and a switch to a low trump from West will also not do because this gives declare the entry in dummy to take the club finesse before ruffing his club.
You must either cash the heart ace before playing a third round of diamonds or you must underlead your second diamond for partner's queen and he should switch to trumps. (best)

Consider this layout:

---

Now trying to cash the ♥A would be fatal. Declarer would force an entry to dummy by playing a low trump towards dummy.
You must either cash the diamonds and then switch to the spade queen(!)- a low trump does not work - or you must underlead your diamond for partner to switch to trump.

So underleading diamonds at trick 2 works in both cases.

Rainer Herrmann

[gnasher]

It looks like declarer should have played ♦J at trick 1.