[RunemPard]

1M-1N
2x-2N inviting to 3NT

1M-2N Jacoby

When you can reverse them to have...

1M-1N
2x-2N Jacoby

1M-2N inviting to 3NT


If your partnership never passes 1NT...you can find out a little more information before bidding jacoby...such as a 6 card suit, strong jumps, natural diamonds and hearts if playing 2C as 2+.

There are the situations when partner makes a jump shift that you will need a way to show jacoby, but it seems like a chance to pick up extra information?

[gwnn]

Opps don't always pass.

[RunemPard]

gwnn, on 2012-December-04, 16:19, said:

Opps don't always pass.

Not really sure how this is relevant...unless you have absolutely no agreements how to handle this...it seems like more of a help when the opponents are nice enough to describe some of their hand to you than to keep quiet.

[gwnn]

1♥-p-1NT-4♠.
1♥-p-1NT-2♠
p-4♠
Yes opps told you that they have many spades but unfortunately you didn't tell your partner that you have 4+ hearts!

[PhilKing]

RunemPard, on 2012-December-04, 16:12, said:

1M-1N
2x-2N inviting to 3NT

1M-2N Jacoby

When you can reverse them to have...

You can't reverse them. With various patterns (eg 2245) you may only have a natural 2NT when you hear partner bid his second suit.

And even if you could flip it, the extra space is way more useful for the natural 2NT hands.

[mikeh]

In addition to all of the excellent points made above, there are at least 2 other problems with your idea.

1. Assume 1M 2N: invitational to 3N.

opener bids 3m.

is this forcing or to play?

If to play, then how does opener invite 5m (or 6m) or offer a choice of M or m game, all below 3N? He can't bid 3m, since that it to play.

If it is forcing, then pity the fool who opened 1♠ with KJxxx x AQJxx xx. Heck, a lot here would see that as a relatively sound opener...so make it even weaker if you're one of them.


2. Assume 1M 1N forcing, 2x.

Now responder MAY find that his initial thinking that his hand was invitational to 3N has broadened. He may well have a fit for x, and may want to include, as options, 3x, 5x, 4M on a 5-2 because of the side fit in addition to the earlier 2 or 3N.

Fortunately most pairs have at least some ability to explore some of these options over 2x. I fail to see how the partnership is as well positioned over 1M 2N 3m even if we know what 3m means (see point 1). Indeed, should opener even bid 3m with a 5422 hand?

[EricK]

In my experience a natural, invitational 2NT is a bad bid (albeit sometimes necessary), and the earlier in the auction it comes the worse it is.

Another way to look at it, not explicitly mentioned above, as far as I can see, is that there is more room below 4M than 3NT, so the space is better used to see if 3NT is on (or what the contract is) in those hands without a fit; whereas we can better afford to jump on the hands with a major fit as we still have nearly two whole levels to explore before reluctantly settling in 4M.

[lexlogan]

It is easy to construct bidding methods under the assumption neither partner nor the opps do anything unexpected. I am convinced it's a bad idea to mix game-going hands in with 1NT forcing, even if you play 1NT 100% forcing. You must consider how you will portray your excellent hand when someone bids something unexepcted like 2NT or 3NT or three or four of a suit. It's tricky enough to untangle the game-invitational hands. Having everything from weak to game invitation to game forcing is a recipe for disaster --there are simply too many odd twists the bidding can take.

[dustinst22]

The forcing NT is one of the weak spots of 2/1. IN my experience, I want to use it as little as possible, not more.

[Free]

Some reasons I can think of not to do this:
- After an auction like 1M-1NT-3m, you no longer have your Jacoby available, and 3M rather shows Hx than 3+ card support. Although slam is likely, the auction gets a lot less comfortable than if you had bid an immediate 2NT Jacoby.
- When 1M-2NT is nat inv, is 1♠-2NT-3m forcing or not? When it's forcing, you lose the option of opener having a weak 5-5 hand playing a good 3m contract (natural auction 1M-1NT-2m-2NT-3m). When it's not forcing, opener can't describe a good hand properly.
- When you don't have a fit M, you want to investigate if 3NT is a good contract. Opener may have a 5440 or 5431 and you want to play 4M, 4OM or 5m instead of 3NT. After 1M-2NT nat inv, opener can only bid 1 of his side suits. After 1M-1NT-2m-2NT-3X responder knows about a 5431 distribution. It wouldn't be the first time I played 4♥ in a 5-3 or 4-3 fit after a 1♠ opening.
- When opps intervene after 1M-1NT (which could be the Jacoby hand), you may have a much harder time to show your strength and fit.