[MickyB]

---

[lalldonn]

I double reeeeeeeeeeallly slooooooowwllllyyyy

[mgoetze]

Partner's crazy bidding has worked out for a change. Agree with your action.

[PhilKing]

Double. I made a decision over 20 years ago not to pass these in these spots. Punish them! Maybe partner is 0634 and they have no safe haven.

Passing can work badly when West bids 5♣ anyway. We can hardly double that, but perhaps partner would have if we stand on our chair now.

[JLOGIC]

Woulda thought Xing is a beginner bid before this thread. Even if partner can double 5C, are we really going to beat it more than 4S undoubled vul? If we get 500, I'll take it rather than 400 or whatever lol. On the other hand, they might just be cold for 5C and are much more likely to bid that if we X. They might also only be going for 200 in 5C X anyways, or 100 in 5C undoubled.

[JLOGIC]

PhilKing, on 2013-January-19, 18:28, said:

Double. I made a decision over 20 years ago not to pass these in these spots. Punish them!

I agree with your sentiment, but 4S undoubled is pretty punishing when they are vul.

[MickyB]

I passed quickly at the table, it felt clear...then I saw the action had got around to partner, and I started having doubts! Couldn't they have been in a 6-4 fit or something and now he needs to save? Thankfully he divined to pass.

[JLOGIC]

Partner cannot save period to me, call me old fashioned.

[Phil]

A Fredin hand

Pass for me.

If I had a little more defense outside spades I'd hit it. Its quite easy to put together a hand where 5♣ is cold, and if you worked out it, there's some layouts where they are making SIX clubs.

[PhilKing]

I see +500 was good for -5 imps (and clearly he should have gone down only 4).

Not clear what would have happened if you had doubled - 5♣ probably goes for 500 (although inspired play leads to one off), but they may brazen it out in the 43 fit.

[JLOGIC]

PhilKing, on 2013-January-20, 12:25, said:

I see +500 was good for -5 imps (and clearly he should have gone down only 4).

Not clear what would have happened if you had doubled - 5♣ probably goes for 500 (although inspired play leads to one off), but they may brazen it out in the 43 fit.

Heh. What was the full hand, sounds like partner was rippin 5C

[PhilKing]

JLOGIC, on 2013-January-20, 12:51, said:

Heh. What was the full hand, sounds like partner was rippin 5C

Not worked how to import hands yet .

Pard has ♠- ♥Q987532 ♦T43 ♣T97. The weak hand has ♠J653 ♥T6 ♦865 ♣K832.

He should run but who knows?

[JLOGIC]

Seems like partner would not X, but I guess if it is RHO who runs and not LHO then we should X assuming LHO has a heart since he only has 3 spades?

You are right, people don't always run and it is a massive gain when they don't.

[gnasher]

MickyB, on 2013-January-19, 20:36, said:

I passed quickly at the table, it felt clear...then I saw the action had got around to partner, and I started having doubts! Couldn't they have been in a 6-4 fit or something and now he needs to save? Thankfully he divined to pass.

If he wanted to save, wouldn't he double? That could be our best route to 1400, in fact - they're much more likely to stick if all we've done is leave in an action double.

I made a decision about 20 years ago not to double in these situations. Naturally I am unable to tell you how well it has worked.

[PhilKing]

gnasher, on 2013-January-21, 13:32, said:

If he wanted to save, wouldn't he double? That could be our best route to 1400, in fact - they're much more likely to stick if all we've done is leave in an action double.

I made a decision about 20 years ago not to double in these situations. Naturally I am unable to tell you how well it has worked.

If partner wanted to save, why wouldn't he just save? He has heard us not double, after all in a position where double is for penalties.

Double does not ask us if we forgot. For me, it's a penalty double with Lightner implications. I understand that most play it is extra offence and defence, but surely not no defence. With a pure hand I expect partner to save.

[JLOGIC]

Can someone give an example of a hand that overcalled only 3H w/r and is now saving?

[PhilKing]

JLOGIC, on 2013-January-21, 13:44, said:

Can someone give an example of a hand that overcalled only 3H w/r and is now saving?

Wouldn't do it myself, but - KTxxxxx Qxx xxx might make partner crack. He might even make it.

[gnasher]

PhilKing, on 2013-January-21, 13:42, said:

Double does not ask us if we forgot. For me, it's a penalty double with Lightner implications.

Yes, OK, the Lightner meaning takes priority.

Quote

I understand that most play it is extra offence and defence, but surely not no defence.

Do they? That's sensible when you've overcalled at the four-level, but unlikely when you've overcalled at the three-level, because you would simply have overcalled one level higher in the first place.

[gnasher]

JLOGIC, on 2013-January-21, 13:44, said:

Can someone give an example of a hand that overcalled only 3H w/r and is now saving?

Perhaps a hand with a surprise side-suit, that didn't want to overcall at the four level because of a poor trump suit? x K10xxxx QJxxx x, for example.

[gszes]

when the opps are in a bad contract and still have a reasonable place
to run the best action is to pass and take your best score. The question is
does that philosophy apply to this auction? I think yes. If you had a preemptive
hand you probably would have passed or bid 5h. You bid 4h thinking it will make
and thus your pass of 4s (it should be obvious to p either minor might be a great
alternative to 4s) should be a willingness to play there. Save the x for another hand
where there is nowhere else to run.

I see a lightner inference mentioned but I cannot see how it applies to this sequence
can anyone explain further????


I lost 5 imps with my pass ??? I hope all my decisions work out so well:))))))))))))))))))))))