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What is standard playing 2/1 with strong nt

Poll: What is standard (31 member(s) have cast votes)

1C - 1H - P - P - 1nt shows?

  1. A good 12-14 balanced with hearts stopped (1 votes [3.03%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.03%

  2. A good 12-14 balanced ambiguous about heart stopper (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. A semi-balanced, non-minimum (say 14-17), with hearts stopped (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. A 18-19 balanced hand with a heart stopper (27 votes [81.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 81.82%

  5. A 18-19 balanced hand ambiguous about heart stopper (5 votes [15.15%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 15.15%

  6. something else (please list) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   Mbodell 

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Posted 2013-January-21, 21:58

You open 1, hear 1 on your left, and the auction continues P, P to you. Playing acbl standard 2/1 with a strong 1nt opening bid, what does a 1nt by you the opener in the balancing seat now show?
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#2 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2013-January-21, 23:37

It never occurred to me that I could give two answers in the poll, since they are exclusive of one another. But, Adam managed to do it. Am not sure how one bid can show a stopper and be ambiguous about it at the same time. My choice would be that it shows one, but if I accidentally don't have it, oh well.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#3 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2013-January-21, 23:39

The opener rebid 1nt show a18-19 balanced hand with exactly a heart stopper .
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#4 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2013-January-22, 03:12

 lycier, on 2013-January-21, 23:39, said:

The opener rebid 1nt show a18-19 balanced hand with exactly a heart stopper .

I agree with this, it's not far off this playing Acol with a weak no trump, playing strong no trump just puts a point or so on the minimum.
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#5 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2013-January-22, 04:45

Indeed you are supposed to have a heart stopper, but sometimes you don't really have one yet every other bid is worse...
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
    -- Bertrand Russell
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#6 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2013-January-22, 05:44

I asked my partner once 'this is 18-19 right?' and he said 'yes 18-19 but sometimes could also be a good 14.'
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#7 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2013-January-22, 08:28

something around 19 balanced depending on the rest of the system, 3+ hearts is all I can say regarding stoppers and even that it is not always true.
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#8 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2013-January-22, 10:37

Compliments to Mbodell, who is far from a N/B. (We see your results in big events sneaking up toward the top.)

More Forum members should initiate threads for the benefit of newer members, not necessarily themselves.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#9 User is offline   Mbodell 

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Posted 2013-January-22, 19:09

 aguahombre, on 2013-January-22, 10:37, said:

Compliments to Mbodell, who is far from a N/B. (We see your results in big events sneaking up toward the top.)

More Forum members should initiate threads for the benefit of newer members, not necessarily themselves.


Thanks for the kind words, but this was also for my benefit. I knew with 100% certainty what 1nt meant with 1-P-P-1-1nt but had heard conflicting things about 1-1-P-P-1nt and ended up believing the non-standard meaning and thus bid it with a 4432 pattern good 13 count with AKJ of hearts and ended up in a bad 3nt when partner raised to 3nt with her 8 count. This was not a good result. So it is good to get clear confirmation on what the bid should mean and correct a clear mistake of mine.
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#10 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2013-January-22, 20:27

 aguahombre, on 2013-January-21, 23:37, said:

It never occurred to me that I could give two answers in the poll, since they are exclusive of one another. But, Adam managed to do it. Am not sure how one bid can show a stopper and be ambiguous about it at the same time. My choice would be that it shows one, but if I accidentally don't have it, oh well.


I'm not usually going to pass 1M out when I hold 18-19 balanced. Without a stopper, there are a number of options including:

(1) Bidding 1 on a four-card suit (I could do this even with a stopper)
(2) Doubling for takeout with approximately the right shape
(3) Rebidding a good five-card minor suit
(4) Rebidding 2 after opening 1 with 4/4 in the minors
(5) Bidding 1NT despite the lack of stopper

Which of these I pick will depend quite a bit on shape and value location and even vulnerability and form of scoring. But I wouldn't say the 1NT bid 100% guarantees a stopper, even though I'd often pick one of those other options without.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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