[Antrax]

---

Matchpoints, unfavourable, east deals and passes. I chose to open the S hand 1NT so we had an uncontested auction. If you open something else, W will bid 2♠ and E will bump to 3.

[aguahombre]

If you prefer naturalish methods, I recommend against the unnatural 1NT opening. But the slam is elementary with Walsh relays after the joke, and elementary after the naturalish 1D opening and a 3C freebid over the 2S overcall.

Your super-accept of the alleged heart transfer part of the Walsh relay is not a problem if super accepts are 2M+1, because responder can still launch the sequence. If your super-accepts are anything else, don't play WR, and don't open 1NT.

[Antrax]

Maybe I should move this to the I/A forum, because I didn't understand almost anything you said.

[aguahombre]

Antrax, on 2013-February-11, 22:41, said:

Maybe I should move this to the I/A forum, because I didn't understand almost anything you said.

And why would you understand it there?

The only word not in your pocket dictionary would be a word you introduced in the OP.

I imagine people using 4-suit xfers would get to slam also, after the joke 1NT...but you want "naturalish".

[Antrax]

Not sure why you're mad at me. I have no clue what Walsh relays are, and I don't see how the auction proceeds after 1♦-(2♠)-3♣. Nothing about your second sentence made sense to me. Presumably in the I/A forum it would be acceptable to request you show an auction instead of berating me for my choice, which I wasn't proposing as the best solution (or there would have been no point in asking).

[aguahombre]

If allowed to open 1♦:

1D (2S) 3C (?).

If RHO is silent, we can proceed.

3H or 3S (3H best, IMO)...then perhaps to 7C, which seems to depend on little more than dropping the diamond queen or a heart hook. 6C is perhaps the lazy contract which might be the winner if the clubs are 3-0. If RHO raises spades, I think we muddle into 6C any old naturalish way.

Apologies for the flame. But asking for natural sequences after a 1NT opening with a holding which evaluates to a big hand for suit play seemed too much.

[Cyberyeti]

Antrax, on 2013-February-11, 23:03, said:

Not sure why you're mad at me. I have no clue what Walsh relays are, and I don't see how the auction proceeds after 1♦-(2♠)-3♣. Nothing about your second sentence made sense to me. Presumably in the I/A forum it would be acceptable to request you show an auction instead of berating me for my choice, which I wasn't proposing as the best solution (or there would have been no point in asking).

Walsh relays are 1N-2♦(hearts or 6CS slam try)-2♥-2♠(slam try)-2N(relay)-3♣(clubs) type auctions. If you play Walsh relays, it's normal to make 2♠ over 2♦ the only way of super accepting the heart "transfer".

This is nowhere close to a 1N opener, it's too good and the wrong shape, slam is cold opposite a hand as bad as xxxx, J10x, AQxxx, x where you may well be going off in 3N.

1♦-(2♠)-3♣-(3♠)
4♣-4♥
4♠-5♦
5♥-5N (anything else ? likely to be looking for Q♦ here for grand)
6♣

[Antrax]

Oh. I was trying to convey the point that in my table the auction was not contested, so the opposition bidding is an estimate based on their hands and not what actually occurred. That's partly why I'm interested in whole bidding sequences - I'm also wondering if just reversing with this hand is better.

[Cyberyeti]

Antrax, on 2013-February-12, 01:14, said:

Oh. I was trying to convey the point that in my table the auction was not contested, so the opposition bidding is an estimate based on their hands and not what actually occurred. That's partly why I'm interested in whole bidding sequences - I'm also wondering if just reversing with this hand is better.

Unopposed

1♦-2♣
2♥-3♣
4♦(kickback)-5♣(2+Q)
5♦(K♦)-6♣(nothing else to show, particularly no Q♦)

[Antrax]

Do you think the north hand is worth a game force opposite an opening?

[Cyberyeti]

Antrax, on 2013-February-12, 01:40, said:

Do you think the north hand is worth a game force opposite an opening?

I think it's marginal, but fortunately my 2♣ wasn't GF (10+), and partner knows that over 2♠ you might stretch slightly to bid 3♣. I would GF FWIW as you're not going to get the power of this hand over if you don't. Sure it might not make, but I think there is a MUCH bigger upside than downside.

[Fluffy]

aguahombre, on 2013-February-11, 22:32, said:

If you prefer naturalish methods, I recommend against the unnatural 1NT opening.

There is absolutelly nothing artificial in opening 1NT showing 15-17 balanced.

A natural sequence tha leads to slam:

1♦-(2♠)-3♣-(3♠)
4♠

the problem here would be to avoid 7.


My sequence would be:


1♦-(2♠)-3♠ (clubs GF)-(pass)
4♠

wich is pretty much the same.


The 1NT opening is a missevaluation, stiff honnors are to be devaluated, but still singleton ace has too much potential on a 5431. 1NT is downgrading the suit potential of the hand. South can never explain what he's got.

1NT-2♠
2NT-3♥ (shortness)
3NT-??

north has not enough to move on, south might have failed to bid 3NT, but with ♥AQ opposite shortness and playing MPs its not gonna happen. Maybe at IMPs south bids 3♠ instead of 3NT. The problem is: nobody expects south to cover 5.5 losers and also have a double stopper in hearts, that is beyond the openin range.

[Fluffy]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-February-12, 01:25, said:

1♦-2♣
2♥-3♣
4♦(kickback)-5♣(2+Q)
5♦(K♦)-6♣(nothing else to show, particularly no Q♦)

I think you should not take captaincy with south's hand. South's hand is very well defined already, and it will be even better defined after a 4♣ bid over 3♣, or maybe 4♠. Now when partner uses kickback or keycard and we show 3, the hand will be crystal clear for him. Even if 4♣ could be 2 cards (6421) it looks fine and leaves partner very well positioned to make decisions, he knows how many diamonds he's got much better than us, and on this hand he knows ♥K is not needed.

[Antrax]

To get it off my chest, our auction was:
1NT-2♠
2NT(♣Hxx or better) - 3♥ (shortness, some slam interest)
4♣ (cue pls tks) - 4♦ (sure)
4NT (RKCB. Useless, in retrospect) - 5♠ (yes, I have everything the auction said I have)
6♣ (the "never bid 7" rule)

BTW, since this is also an interesting debate: part of the reason I opened 1NT was that I thought K9xxx is a pretty lousy "anchor" suit. Is this consideration irrelevant?

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Antrax, on 2013-February-12, 04:16, said:

To get it off my chest, our auction was:
1NT-2♠
2NT(♣Hxx or better) - 3♥ (shortness, some slam interest)
4♣ (cue pls tks) - 4♦ (sure)
4NT (RKCB. Useless, in retrospect) - 5♠ (yes, I have everything the auction said I have)
6♣ (the "never bid 7" rule)

BTW, since this is also an interesting debate: part of the reason I opened 1NT was that I thought K9xxx is a pretty lousy "anchor" suit. Is this consideration irrelevant?

What would 3♠ ( over 3♥ ) mean ?? [ A Ctrl-cue or probing ? ]

[Fluffy]

Antrax, on 2013-February-12, 04:16, said:

To get it off my chest, our auction was:
1NT-2♠
2NT(♣Hxx or better) - 3♥ (shortness, some slam interest)
4♣ (cue pls tks) - 4♦ (sure)
4NT (RKCB. Useless, in retrospect) - 5♠ (yes, I have everything the auction said I have)
6♣ (the "never bid 7" rule)

BTW, since this is also an interesting debate: part of the reason I opened 1NT was that I thought K9xxx is a pretty lousy "anchor" suit. Is this consideration irrelevant?

Are you sure you play 3♥ that way? it is very normal to bid 3♥ with a 9-10 count so that partner can evaluate wich game is best.

Having a bad suit is a reason to bid your hand as balanced, not the strongest reason, but yes, it plays a role.

As Don says, there is no need to bid 4♣ with opener's hand, 3♠ doesn't consume that much space, and even better it doesn't get above 3NT. It is also a bad idea for a limited hand to force the unlmited hand to cuebid. Here it makes sense because opener has an impossible hand with a singleton and laods of controls. But in general its a weird idea, limited hands describe, unlimited hands decide.

[lexlogan]

Antrax, on 2013-February-11, 22:01, said:

---

Matchpoints, unfavourable, east deals and passes. I chose to open the S hand 1NT so we had an uncontested auction. If you open something else, W will bid 2♠ and E will bump to 3.

1♦-(2♠)-3♣-(3♠)
4♠-4NT
5♦-5NT (0 or 3 key cards)
6♦-6NT looks good

6♣ might be better since this is not a slam the field will necessarily bid, but that requires either North or South masterminding to give up on grand slam without enough detail about partner's hand. At 6NT we try to drop the Q♦ and then fall back on the heart finesse or a squeeze. Actually, that gives a decent play for 7♣, but I think 6NT is a fine matchpoint spot, with good chances for thirteen tricks.

[Cyberyeti]

lexlogan, on 2013-February-12, 09:34, said:

1♦-(2♠)-3♣-(3♠)
4♠-4NT
5♦-5NT (0 or 3 key cards)
6♦-6NT looks good

It looks good if you want to be in 6N where you only have 11 tricks and 7♣ is just as good and more rewarding. 6N will make much more often that not, but 7♣ is basically on the same things so I'd rather be in that. 7♣ also only goes one off, whereas if you have to take the heart finesse in 6N and it fails, you're -2.

Edit - was keying this in as you added the last paragraph.