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Balancing? or not? Balancing of a preemptive bid

Poll: Balancing or not? (25 member(s) have cast votes)

Both Vulnerable at IMPs: (3Spades)-Pass-Pass-?

  1. Pass (16 votes [64.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 64.00%

  2. Double (9 votes [36.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 36.00%

  3. Other (please specify) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   vitorlopes 

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Posted 2013-February-07, 09:16

Playing IMPs. Both vulnerable, you have this hand:

♠6 ♥AJ742 ♦KJ8 ♣9843

The bidding was:

(3♠)-Pass-(Pass)-?

What is your action, if any?
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#2 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2013-February-07, 09:38

I'd X
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#3 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2013-February-07, 09:52

Double.

A direct action over a preempt should be based on sound values. Looking at our hand, it appears that partner may have the values to make a call but no call that makes any sense. For example, suppose partner had xxx KQx ATxx KQx? 4♥ is a reasonable spot, and 3♠ might make.

There is a chance that anything but pass could be a terrible mistake on the hand, but, more often than not, passing will be very bad.
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#4 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2013-February-07, 09:56

View PostArtK78, on 2013-February-07, 09:52, said:

For example, suppose partner had xxx KQx ATxx KQx? 4♥ is a reasonable spot, and 3♠ might make.



So are you arguing for a 4H balance because you won't get to 4H after a double.
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#5 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2013-February-07, 10:02

View PostJLOGIC, on 2013-February-07, 09:56, said:

So are you arguing for a 4H balance because you won't get to 4H after a double.

I am not double-dummying the hand. Double is right as the balance. Whether you will score a bulls-eye by getting to 4♥ after the double is another question.

It is not unreasonable for partner to bid 4♥ on KQx after the balancing double. None of his choices are great.
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#6 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2013-February-07, 10:15

View PostArtK78, on 2013-February-07, 10:02, said:

I am not double-dummying the hand. Double is right as the balance. Whether you will score a bulls-eye by getting to 4♥ after the double is another question.


Heh I know, my only point was that one downside of doubling is you're not necessarily going to get to the right spot even when there is one, namely a lot of 5-3 heart fits. Your example hand imo was an illustration of this.

Of course, I'm a doubler anyways, just playing devils advocate. I expect partner to pass and for them to go down a lot, and if he bids 4H I'm happy. Minor suit bids I might survive... 3N, not so much :P
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#7 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2013-February-07, 10:16

I like my S-single for offense. Don't like low hcp even to balance.
Get in there with double. May even bounce 4S over our 4H.
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#8 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2013-February-07, 10:50

I'd pass.
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#9 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2013-February-07, 13:02

I'd pass. It's a nine-count with two jacks and half of the honours in a 3-card suit.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#10 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2013-February-07, 13:04

I'd keep the money.
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#11 User is offline   SteveMoe 

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Posted 2013-February-07, 20:51

Pass. Feels a Q short of double.
Be the partner you want to play with.
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#12 User is offline   Alik1974 

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Posted 2013-March-09, 19:40

Dbl, not wholeheartedly.
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#13 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2013-March-09, 22:37

insta double for me unless RHO tanked
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#14 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2013-March-10, 03:21

Clear pass for me.
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#15 User is offline   mcphee 

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Posted 2013-March-10, 06:35

Double, passing is giving up, I would not even blush placing this hand down as dummy, I'll have better next time partner.
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#16 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2013-March-10, 07:48

Does balancer here assume one of partner's kings
to let aggressive competing?
I get in double. S-single is the persuader:
the partner with shape competes.
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