[bd71]

Painfully basic no doubt...and yet we had a misunderstanding on it last night.

Assume you are playing fairly standard 2/1.

1m (1S) X (2S)
X

How do you play the 2nd double?

[ArtK78]

This is a matter of partnership agreement. I have seen some partnerships that agree that this double shows 4 hearts, and others that agree that it denies 4 hearts and shows extras.

Personally, I think the double should show extras without 4 hearts. With 4 hearts you can bid hearts.

[helene_t]

Depends somewhat of the meaning of 2NT (do you play some kind of good/bad 2NT?). But in any case a hand like xx-Axx-AKJx-AQxx would fit. I agree with Art that it should deny four hearts.

[ahydra]

I play a weak NT-based system, and that X shows something like a decent strong NT without a stop in spades.

ahydra

[gnasher]

It's ostensibly for takeout. In an ideal world it would always be 13(54), but it also has to include one-suiters which are too strong for 3m, strong balanced hands without a spade stop, 22(54) shapes, etc.

[wyman]

Extras, takeout.

[Phil]

Cards usually although with one pard we invert 2N and x, so this would be co-op.

[Phil]

wyman, on 2013-May-22, 11:30, said:

Extras, takeout.

When there is only one 'unbid' suit, a rigid 'takeout' doesn't make much sense to me.

Clearly with 4♥, 6♦ or 5♣ I'm bidding the suit. Therefore, takeout means 2245 or maybe 1354 or some variants.

[Zelandakh]

Have another look at Roger's write-up on doubles. Doubles in situations like this just stand for hands that need to do something but do not have a convenient call, retaining flexibility. You can apply this logic to the majority of nebulous doubles. Andy gives a good write-up of how that might be applied in the specific auction. As helene and Phil point out, agreements regarding a 2NT rebid are also relevant and as ahydra writes the NT range has an effect - when Opener doubles after a response and 2 level bid from RHO, it is sometimes referred to as a "strong NT double" in WeakNTland.

[wyman]

Phil, on 2013-May-22, 19:51, said:

When there is only one 'unbid' suit, a rigid 'takeout' doesn't make much sense to me.

Clearly with 4♥, 6♦ or 5♣ I'm bidding the suit. Therefore, takeout means 2245 or maybe 1354 or some variants.

Yeah, sorry, I assumed that "takeout" was the preferred nomenclature for a hand with short spades and approximately [number of cards needed to bid <suit> - 1] in each other <suit>.

I certainly didn't mean that you had a hand that would make a takeout double of an opening spade bid.

[PhilKing]

Phil, on 2013-May-22, 19:51, said:

When there is only one 'unbid' suit, a rigid 'takeout' doesn't make much sense to me.

Clearly with 4♥, 6♦ or 5♣ I'm bidding the suit. Therefore, takeout means 2245 or maybe 1354 or some variants.

I don't really get the point. Do you want a better adjective?

Partner is allowed to take out to a suit that has already been bid, and we are allowed to double and remove clubs to diamonds.

[Phil]

PhilKing, on 2013-May-23, 11:50, said:

I don't really get the point. Do you want a better adjective?

Partner is allowed to take out to a suit that has already been bid, and we are allowed to double and remove clubs to diamonds.

No, just distinguish between takeout and TAKEOUT.

With a 'TAKEOUT DOUBLE', I'm not sure I want partner passing a lot. With a 'takeout double', I don't mind at all.

Per Bridge World we now have "cooperative takeout' which fits the definition nicely without abusing caps-lock.

[gnasher]

If I made a takeout double here, I wouldn't want him to pass very often.

[Zelandakh]

You could just define takeout as "takeout within the context of the auction" and not need any new terms or caps lock at all. Perhaps wyman already does this.