[hrothgar]

ArtK78, on 2013-July-11, 09:30, said:

So, with the acquiescence of Israel, the WBF has ratified that the host country can essentially choose to bar a country from playing in the World Championships.

Truly a good day for bridge.

In many ways, this reminds me of the Shanghai incident from a few years back.

1. Something controversial happens
2. Some idiot decides to gin up a lynch mob
3. There is much sounds and fury, signifying nothing
4. The whole thing gets papered over

Personally, I can think of a lot better ways this could have ended. (I'm sure that everyone would prefer a situation in which the Israeli team was able to participate). At the same time, I can think of a lot worse ways that things could go, and I would include a event boycott, an event cancellation, or a change of venue in that category.

[CSGibson]

ArtK78, on 2013-July-11, 09:30, said:

So, with the acquiescence of Israel, the WBF has ratified that the host country can essentially choose to bar a country from playing in the World Championships.

Truly a good day for bridge.

The characterization that Indonesia barred Israel from competing is absolute BS.

The host country was going to allow Israel to compete, and Israel decided not to when the host company would not go through a little extra effort to reassure them as to security arrangements. Would I like to have seen it handled differently? Yes, but I would also have liked to see Israel and Indonesia be able to set up consulates in each other's countries, too, so I'm not surprised that Indonesia was unwilling to go the extra effort to accomodate Israel.

[ArtK78]

CSGibson, on 2013-July-11, 10:03, said:

The characterization that Indonesia barred Israel from competing is absolute BS.

The host country was going to allow Israel to compete, and Israel decided not to when the host company would not go through a little extra effort to reassure them as to security arrangements. Would I like to have seen it handled differently? Yes, but I would also have liked to see Israel and Indonesia be able to set up consulates in each other's countries, too, so I'm not surprised that Indonesia was unwilling to go the extra effort to accomodate Israel.

I believe that it is fairly clear that the bridge federation of Indonesia and/or the government of Indonesia did not reply to the concerns raised by Israel concerning security. There was not a yes or a no - just silence. So, by not acting, they acted. The effect is the same.

There is a long history of Arab and Muslim countries refusing to play against Israeli teams in world championship competitions. There are always excuses given, but the effect is the same. And they have never been sanctioned for their refusal to play against the Israeli teams. So the problem resulting from having a Muslim country hosing the World Championships were forseeable and inevitable.

[aguahombre]

hrothgar, on 2013-July-11, 09:58, said:

Personally, I can think of a lot better ways this could have ended. (I'm sure that everyone would prefer a situation in which the Israeli team was able to participate).

Me, too. But once the alternate was inserted, then acknowledged and wished well by the Israelis, the women's team could no longer accept that conclusion with the dignity I know they have.

[jjbrr]

ArtK78, on 2013-July-11, 11:07, said:

I believe that it is fairly clear that the bridge federation of Indonesia and/or the government of Indonesia did not reply to the concerns raised by Israel concerning security. There was not a yes or a no - just silence. So, by not acting, they acted. The effect is the same.

Can you show us any evidence at all for this?

[ArtK78]

jjbrr, on 2013-July-11, 13:38, said:

Can you show us any evidence at all for this?

Read any accounts of the situation in Bali. It is generally agreed that the primary reason the situation reached the point that it did was that requests by the Israeli Government or the Israeli Bridge Federation (I am not sure which) for information about security measures were ignored - not denied, just ignored. It was referred to in many of the posts as stonewalling. So, when no response was obtained, the Israeli Government forced the women's team to withdraw.

No one is saying that this didn't happen.

[ggwhiz]

An event like this carries an economic impact that should include a lot of clout to the WBF. If this problem had surfaced in time it could have been solved or the event moved. Didn't happen for so many reasons but I hope the lesson is learned and our apolitical WBF will proactively address these political issues in the future.

Being "blindsided" by this one in todays world and in light of past experiences was just plain dumb.

[Aberlour10]

When the big sport events have been given to the host countries, its usual that world federations like FIFA etc, require from host detailed security concepts.

IMO, the main question in this topic is...why the WBF seems not to do it?

If they would do, any NBO could check ( with the utmost discretions, of course) it and decide: is it enough for us or not.

[cherdano]

Aberlour10, on 2013-July-11, 16:18, said:

When the big sport events have been given to the host countries, its usual that world federations like FIFA etc, require from host detailed security concepts.

IMO, the main question in this topic is...why the WBF seems not to do it?

How do you know they didn't?

[Aberlour10]

cherdano, on 2013-July-11, 16:59, said:

How do you know they didn't?

I dont know it. But if they do, its logical thing that WBF would inform Israelis about this. From all what I read here and in "bridgewinners discussion">>>
...the completely lack of security informations was the reason why Israeli authorities decided to cancel the participation.

[ggwhiz]

cherdano, on 2013-July-11, 16:59, said:

How do you know they didn't?

There was a visa issue for the Israelis.... solved (at their expense). The security issue was raised and simple requests for a contact to discuss them were basically ignored. If the WBF wasn't informed and/or engaged (as I suspect) I give them a big DUH! If they were and didn't act, it's worse.

Bottom line regardless, the event is a WBF show. Own it. Best practice might be that the Israelis ask the WBF for whatever they need and the WBF is the face that asks the Indonesians to supply same with the carrot that we may take our $$ elsewhere and the direct political interaction (given that Indonesia does not recognize Israel) is sidestepped.

Just because the WBF is apolitical doesn't mean you can ignore the realities.

[paua]

ArtK78, on 2013-July-11, 13:50, said:

Read any accounts of the situation in Bali. It is generally agreed that the primary reason the situation reached the point that it did was that requests by the Israeli Government or the Israeli Bridge Federation (I am not sure which) for information about security measures were ignored - not denied, just ignored. It was referred to in many of the posts as stonewalling. So, when no response was obtained, the Israeli Government forced the women's team to withdraw.

No one is saying that this didn't happen.

You have no proof of this, just hearsay. The muppets on BridgeWinners have their own agenda. It is unlikely that the Indonesians are going to present their side of the story on BBOForums or BridgeWinners.

Have we not learned anything in the last dozen years about USA and Israeli spin on terrorism ?

[mike777]

This seems to be proof from the USBF:

BREAKING NEWS. A few minutes ago, George Jacobs, President of the United States Bridge Federation (USBF), announced the following:

“I am pleased to report that the ugly situation involving the Israeli Women’s Bridge team and the World Bridge Championships being held in Bali, Indonesia, has been brought to a conclusion in a manner that has been judged amenable to all.

To recap: 6 teams from Europe qualified to play in theVenice Cup, Israel among them. The team was rebuffed when seeking visas and security. To be fair, Israel could have flown two Indonesian Nationals to a neutral country, paid for their trips, and secured visas. Israel was willing to do this. But when no answers were forthcoming about security, either from Indonesia or the World Bridge Federation
---


Would be nice to hear from the head of the WBF
http://www.worldbrid...ships-bali.aspx

http://www.worldbridge41bali.com/

[hrothgar]

mike777, on 2013-July-11, 17:28, said:

This seems to be proof from the USBF:

BREAKING NEWS. A few minutes ago, George Jacobs, President of the United States Bridge Federation (USBF), announced the following:

“I am pleased to report that the ugly situation involving the Israeli Women’s Bridge team and the World Bridge Championships being held in Bali, Indonesia, has been brought to a conclusion in a manner that has been judged amenable to all.

To recap: 6 teams from Europe qualified to play in theVenice Cup, Israel among them. The team was rebuffed when seeking visas and security. To be fair, Israel could have flown two Indonesian Nationals to a neutral country, paid for their trips, and secured visas. Israel was willing to do this. But when no answers were forthcoming about security, either from Indonesia or the World Bridge Federation
---


Would be nice to hear from the head of the WBF
http://www.worldbrid...ships-bali.aspx

http://www.worldbridge41bali.com/

Few quick observations:

1. The US team isn't directly involved in this affair. I know that members of the USBF have opinions about what took place. However, I have no reason to believe the USBF leadership has any privileged knowledge about what's what. Simply, Jacob's opinion of what Al Levy is saying is interesting, but I have no reason to believe that its accurate.

2. I question why the USBF leadership is issuing his own comments on these matters. If the USBF as an organization doesn't have a public opinion, its leadership should not be issuing private statements. (Note that Roland Wald's Facebook page, which is the only source for Jacob's letter states that this is a private opinion and does not reflect the opinion of the the USBF)

3. I'm torn whether it would be better for the WBF to make some kind of official announcement or ignore it and wait for it to go away...

[jdeegan]

Last time I looked, the convention business was still a buyer's market. A vendor can't provide the product as specified? On the phone to find a suitable replacement. Macau, Phuket, the Gold Coast?? Wtf. even the Holy Land is an interesting place to visit, and the IDF has a reputation for providing excellent security. BTW, was the feeler from Beijing a hint to move the whole event there?

Giving in to a shake down by two bit thugs? Of course, YOU will NEVER do that again. At least until next time.

Granted, Indonesia is a very complex place. No doubt, the people you dealt with were good folks, and were honest and correct in saying they could not guarantee security. So, get your deposits back (to the extent possible) and, in return, reschedule for a better time. Meanwhile, find a more suitable venue for the event and the tourist dollars, euros, et.al. the participants will bring with them.

[jonottawa]

I didn't know who ggwhiz was. Now I do! Sorry you stepped in my Animal House trap. I didn't set it for you. Of course it's absurd to offer anyone a 'blank check' to ask for whatever they want and hold the organizers hostage unless they deliver.

The whole thing is an ugly mess. A bunch of bullies shouted everyone else down (I feel especially bad for Roy Welland, but anyone who was subjected (or saw what was going on and risked being subjected) to that hateful tripe and stood their ground gets a big thumbs up from me) and got their way. About the only silver lining is that the event wasn't moved.

I agree with hrothgar that it reminds me a lot of Shanghai:

I made a lot of posts because I saw a vulnerable group being bullied and I didn't like it.
Bobby Wolff was dead wrong then too.
The USBF pres made a very poorly worded statement (iirc.)

[ggwhiz]

jonottawa, on 2013-July-11, 19:34, said:

Of course it's absurd to offer anyone a 'blank check'

The only blank check I'm suggesting goes to the owners of the "show". They bring the bucks, they spend the bucks and any/all requests special or otherwise and final determination of the venue should flow through the WBF. That decision making authority looks to have been abdicated for no good reason.

Edit: Perhaps given the politics the Israelis should have made their request (for info, not state secrets) through the WBF instead of trying to deal directly with the Indonesians. Perhaps they did. I don't know but the WBF should be taking the lead in their own event.

[the hog]

ArtK78, on 2013-July-11, 11:07, said:

I believe that it is fairly clear that the bridge federation of Indonesia and/or the government of Indonesia did not reply to the concerns raised by Israel concerning security. There was not a yes or a no - just silence. So, by not acting, they acted. The effect is the same.

There is a long history of Arab and Muslim countries refusing to play against Israeli teams in world championship competitions. There are always excuses given, but the effect is the same. And they have never been sanctioned for their refusal to play against the Israeli teams. So the problem resulting from having a Muslim country hosing the World Championships were forseeable and inevitable.

Art, as you appear to know more about this issue than anyone else either on BW or on this site, could you please fill us in on the communication or lack of it that occurred? Could you please publish the email(s) that the IBF sent to Indonesia. If you cannot then I suggest that your "fairly clear" comment is rubbish.

[mike777]

again for proof or evidence it seems we do have this from the WBF:

The World Bridge Federation said that the deadline was approaching and asked if Israel was going to enter the Venice Cup. Levy said that the lack of clarity about security, a life-and-death question for Israels, left the IBF little choice but to withdraw

--------------------

It appears that his comment was made 5 days ago. Has there been any further communication from the WBF?


View PostGreenMan, on 2013-July-10, 19:50, said:


This comment is on the article at newinbridge.com:

"Becoming aware of this incident only a few days ago I have written my fellow members of the WBF Executive Council asking that this decision NOT stand. What can be done? The team can be invited as an added team with security and visa issues solved asap. I have written to Eitan and expressed my personal apology and regret. I hope others feel the same. The matter is not over.

Alvin Levy
Executive Vice President, WBF
Board of Directors, ACBL"

-------------------



OTOH if there is other proof or evidence, rather than just gossip that would be helpful.

[jdeegan]

the hog, on 2013-July-11, 20:38, said:

Art, as you appear to know more about this issue than anyone else either on BW or on this site, could you please fill us in on the communication or lack of it that occurred? Could you please publish the email(s) that the IBF sent to Indonesia. If you cannot then I suggest that your "fairly clear" comment is rubbish.

OMG. Don't you know nuthin' about Indonesia. Shadow Play? "The Year of Living Dangerously". An island nation (empire?) with hundreds of islands. Four different religions. A former Dutch colony for several hundred years. People there are not what one would characterize as straightforward and for good reason. You don't have to be a genius to know what is happening. You just have to not be stupid.