[mikeh]

aguahombre, on 2013-July-16, 10:29, said:

I think we are going off track here. The hand you gave would not have bid 4sf at all, but rather 3nt after 1C-1H-1S.

And my minority position about 2S did not use 2S as guaranteeing 3-card support. It was the start of a control sequence agreeing Hearts or pattern if preferred, agreeing Hearts for slam.

This seems highly inefficient. How is responder to set spades as trump?

Has he to bid to 3♠??? Consuming an entire level?

Admittedly, there will be hands on which hearts are now trump, once opener shows delayed support. Responder has to bid 3♥ to set trump, and this is almost (but importantly not) as space consuming. The distinction may seem minor, but the ability to cue 3♠ over 3♥ (or to show valuable info by not cuing 3♠) is very useful.

However, my main objection is one of principle. 4SF says NOTHING about strain, and responder is obliged to clarify that issue before either partner can properly evaluate for degree of fit and location of working cards. Any use of responder's next call after 4SF should, in my view be taken as clarifying strain, and this is best kept as a universal rule rather than getting into problems where one has to infer whether a suit has been implicitly agreed upon or not.

[Winstonm]

aguahombre, on 2013-July-16, 10:29, said:

I think we are going off track here. The hand you gave would not have bid 4sf at all, but rather 3nt after 1C-1H-1S.

And my minority position about 2S did not use 2S as guaranteeing 3-card support. It was the start of a control sequence agreeing Hearts or pattern if preferred, agreeing Hearts for slam.

That is what I said, basically - the only hand I can think of to use 4th suit and then bid 2S is one on which a NT bid would have been preferable in the first place. The primary concern of a slam try to the partnership is "what suit is trumps?" Once a GF 4th suit is bid, the clearcut call over 2H should be 3H, IMO, thus establishing what suit will be trumps and advertising an interest in slam.

2S as an advanced cue bid risks (as do almost all advance cues) confusion.

My position is that it is better to keep things clear. Introducing a confusion into this auction negates the value of using 4th suit GF.