[straube]

We play limited 5-cd majors and our 2C is an artificial gf asking bid. In this context, what do folks think of 1M-2D to show something like 12-13, 2-fit for the major and (for GCC purposes) 3 or more diamonds? For Midchart there would be no such restriction.

An obvious downside is missing a superior minor suit fit...a la 1M-1N, 2m. An upside is that we get the invitation off our chest and get to play 2M when opener is weak and the major is our best fit. We avoid 2N such as 1M-1N, 2m-2N.

Now when responder has shortness in opener's major, he'd still respond 1N. So if it went 1M-1N, 2m-2M obviously this would be less than invitation (which it is now already). The main thing is that when short in opener's major, responder is more desiring of leaving room to hear a minor side suit.

I suppose we could have certain continuations such as 1H-2D, 2H-2S to show 1255 or 1H-2D, 2H-3C to show 6 clubs and 2 hearts. We'd be investigating possible other strains with opener's major as a failsafe. In practice I doubt many such auctions would transpire and we'd have to occasionally linger in a 5-2 major fit when we might have had a 6-5 minor suit fit. Would the wins outstrip the losses?

I'm not sure what 1S-2D, 2H ought to be either. Hearts? Maybe there's a better use.

[Zelandakh]

Over 1♥ it seems better to reverse these, so 1♥ - 2♥ = 2 hearts and invitational and 1♥ - 2♦ = 3 card support, various strengths, but even then I am not overly convinced that this is a good use for the bid when this is such an easy hand to show in a more traditional way. Over 1♠, using 2♦ for this rather than showing hearts just seems silly. You can still play the 2♥ = 3 card raise and 2♠ = 2 spades and invitational strength switch beyond this, which gets the same comments as after a 1♥ opening.

[Free]

In one of my partnerships I play 1M-2♦ by a passed hand as 5OM-2M with the desire to play at 2-level. This works great. You could easily fit this into your system and modify the strength. Showing 3+♦ is useless, but showing 5OM is less frequent. It does allow fast arrival though, and Majors are most important.

[straube]

Thanks thus far. The 3+ diamond requirement is merely to comply with the GCC. We did have a thread about 2D as natural and forcing, but the continuations were a bit cumbersome to memorize and we're looking for something simpler. Another idea would just be natural to play which would allow 1M-1N, 2C-2D to be BART.

[dake50]

So, do any of your concerns go through 1Nt-force?
What distinguishes
1S-2D =2-fit, 10
from
1S-1Nt-, 2x-2S?

[straube]

dake50, on 2013-July-17, 09:03, said:

So, do any of your concerns go through 1Nt-force?
What distinguishes
1S-2D =2-fit, 10
from
1S-1Nt-, 2x-2S?

1S-1N, 2x-2S would be like 8-11 two-fit
1S-2D would be like 12-13 two-fit
1S-1N, 2x-2N would be like 12-13 and two or less spades. If two, then probably fewer than three diamonds.

I'm not saying this is a great use for 2D. I'm asking whether it's a good and simple use for 2D given that 2C is a GF artificial ask and we're preparing for a GCC event.

[Zelandakh]

I assume you are using this in combination with the 1M - 2♣ = nat INV or any GF from the other thread? What are you using your 3♣ response for at present? Could you get away with

1♠
==
2♣ = art GF
2♦ = diamonds and clubs, INV
2♥ = hearts and clubs, INV
3♣ = clubs only, INV

and

1♥
==
2♣ = art GF
2♦ = diamonds and clubs, INV
3♣ = clubs only, INV

I agree this is a little strange but it seems to be allowed under the rules and covers everything without ruining the underlying relay system.

[gwnn]

how many diamonds/hearts and how many clubs would 2D/2H show? funny idea.

[Zelandakh]

The same number that would get rid of the invitational hands from the 2♣ response in the "Midchart legal?" thread.

[straube]

We've gone back to 2D as natural and invitational, but we revised it and it works a little better. For spades it goes...

1S-2D
.....2H-weakness signal
..........2S-2-fit
...............2N-4H
...............3C-5C
...............3D-4D
...............3H
..........2N-short spade (possibility of missing 4-4 heart fit here)
..........3C-5D/5C
..........3D-6D
.....2S-artificial GF
..........2N-asking
...............3C-the 5422s
....................3D-asking
.........................3H-5224
.........................3S-5242
.........................3N-5422
...............3D-short diamond
....................3H-asking
.........................3S-5314
.........................3N-5413
...............3H-5H
...............3S-6S/5H
...............3N-balanced (5332)
..........3C-5D/5C
..........3D-6D
..........3H-4H/6D
.....2N-6S, GF
..........3C-5D/5C
..........3D-6D
..........3H-4H (1444 etc)
.....3C-5C
.....3D-5134
.....3H-5431
.....3S-5143 etc
.....3N-5341 etc

To show how this fits in with our other responses...

1S-2H
.....P-usually 2-fit, min
.....2S-5S, 0-1 H, min
.....2N-artificial GF
.....3C-5C GF
.....3D-5D GF
.....3H-raise
.....3S-6S, 1H, about 12-13, nf

1S-2C (debating the legality of this but pd and I think it's legal Midchart)
.....2D-5332 or 4+D or 5+C
..........2H-GF relay
..........2S-4+C, 4+D, inv
..........2N-4+C, inv
..........3C-6+C, inv
.....2H-4+H
..........2S-GF relay
..........2N-4+C, inv
..........3C-6+C, inv
.....2S-4C
..........2N-GF relay
..........3C-4+C, inv
.....2N-6S, bal, GF
.....etc-6S unbal, GF