[cherdano]

Shugart23, on 2013-August-02, 10:35, said:

Or with 5 Hearts,3,3,2 clubs, I respond 2C to forcing NT.

I don't know about rules, but playing in the USA, this agreement is unexpected, useful for the opponents to know, and not natural. Sounds like an alert to me.

[Shugart23]

cherdano, on 2013-August-03, 10:56, said:

I don't know about rules, but playing in the USA, this agreement is unexpected, useful for the opponents to know, and not natural. Sounds like an alert to me.

I think you are right, but where does it end ...or does it ? Because of our treatment with the 2-5-3-2 hand,, For me and my partner, 1H -1NT-(forcing) - 2D now guarantees 4 Diamonds......I don't alert the 2D bid.....

[Vampyr]

Shugart23, on 2013-August-03, 13:43, said:

I don't alert the 2D bid.....

Well, obviously you don't have to alert bids that show at least the "expected" length.

[barmar]

nige1, on 2013-August-03, 07:05, said:

Thank you Barmar.

Barmar's assumption that 2/1 is general bridge knowledge stretches credulity almost as much as the ACBL's idea that partner could "expect three or more cards in the minor" when he knows that the bid must be made with 4522.

This method is so artificial, that you'd expect, sensible players to go the whole hog: preserve a natural 4+ card meaning for the 2♦ bid; and relegate 4522, 4531, 3532, 2533 to a dusbin bid of 2♣.

I think 2/1 is the system being taught to many (perhaps most) beginners in the US these days. The basics of the system are probably GBK in ACBL territory.

And remember that the forcing 1NT has to be announced. Even players who don't play 2/1 know what "forcing" means. They know that when you're forced to bid, you sometimes have to find the least lie. Do you

• Rebid 2♥, lying about the length of your hearts?
  
• Rebid 2♠, lying about your strength?
  
• Rebid 2♣, lying about the length of your clubs?

Since it's well known that clubs are worthless the last case is the obvious choice.

[blackshoe]

LH2650, on 2013-August-02, 20:53, said:

If I look under Charts Rules and Regulations > Alert Procedures on the ACBL website, I find: "Definition of expected length for natural bids for the Alert Procedure are:
◦Suit bids: ◾3+ in a minor and 4+ in a major for opening bids, rebids and responses."

That includes rebids.

The definitions listed on the Chart do not include the word "rebids". Yet another place where the ACBL needs a good editor.

[helene_t]

Vampyr, on 2013-August-03, 14:10, said:

Well, obviously you don't have to alert bids that show at least the "expected" length.

The point is that 2♦ is expected just to show 3 .... but I am not sure if that is true. Pairs who play a non-forcing 1NT response and always open 1NT with 15-17 and 5M332 promise four diamonds as well. Maybe 3+ is expected because opps know that 1NT was forcing, though ....

[mycroft]

The Alert Procedure - that Barry quoted - is actually very clear. In the ACBL, it is assumed that 1M-1 forcing NT-2m is assumed to be 3+, with diamonds "likely" 4, and any other agreement is Alertable - except for the specific "we don't play Flannery" case.

Granted, it's buried in the middle of the Alert Procedure, but it is in Responses and Rebids where you'd expect it.