[Hanoi5]

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MP's. West led ♥6 and East returned the suit, South discarding his losing club and cashing the ♠A to watch the King fall. Should West lead something else or should East return something else?

[Lord Molyb]

I blame south for pre-empting over a pre-empt

[rmnka447]

As far as the defense is concerned, East needed to do a little counting and thinking.

First the counting. Looking at 8 ♥s and seeing 3 ♥ in dummy with both partner and declarer following, that adds up to 13 cards. So, both partner AND declarer are out of trump. With the remaining winning ♥ cards in dummy, East should see that declarer has the option of a loser on loser play if a ♥ is returned immediately.

Now let's consider the thinking part. What can partner have for his double of 4 ♠? How are we going to beat 4 ♠?

First, let's consider partner's holding based on his bidding and his double. Partner has raised to 4 ♥ with 1 trump. That surely suggests that partner's raise is based on high card tricks rather than on fit. However, looking at dummy, you see both the minor suit Ks. So, the best partner can have in those suits are AQx(x...) holdings. Holding AQs in the minors, a stiff ♥, and some indeterminate ♠ looks like a pretty slender reed to be basing a double on or even to be a holding to positively raise to game on.

Therefore, it appears partner must hold some winning ♠ honor(s) as well to justify the bidding so far. With only one outside AQ in a minor and ♠ Ax(x...), a double depending on you winning the opening lead and giving partner a ♥ ruff to defeat the contract is extremely risky. So, the most sensible combination to play for is for partner to hold BOTH outside As and a ♠ trick.

To minimize the possibility of dummy providing a pitch for declarer, it would seem to lead the shorter of dummy's outside suits. So I believe ♦ J is the right return at trick 2.

A heart return at trick 2 would be OK if your heart holding was good enough to force declarer to ruff or lose the trick without partner ruffing. Then at worst you'd be trading one defensive trick for another.

[the_clown]

I think the blame is a bit harsh. A heart back will cost only when South has 2 singletons and this blows partner's trump trick. Of course you know S bid 3♠ at unfav with few HCP so he will have some shape but it doesn't have to be 7-4. And at MP its reasonable to try for 2 down.

By the way I don't like the 3♥ opener or the raise on a stiff.

[Lord Molyb]

the_clown, on 2013-November-01, 19:33, said:

I think the blame is a bit harsh. A heart back will cost only when South has 2 singletons and this blows partner's trump trick. Of course you know S bid 3♠ at unfav with few HCP so he will have some shape but it doesn't have to be 7-4. And at MP its reasonable to try for 2 down.

By the way I don't like the 3♥ opener or the raise on a stiff.

Good point.
I hate the whole auction, in that case.

[HighLow21]

I blame the double of 4♠ first, then the failure to switch at trick 2. Partner has to have an ace somewhere and a diamond return looks threatening so I return a club. 1 down immediately.

But seriously, anyone who doubles on that auction is a bad gambler.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

not sure, if I would be awake enough, if I am on the table, but

East knowes all, how the hearts are distributed around the table,
so he knowes, that West and South both have Singletons.
Returning hearts is basically trying to for giving West the trump 8,
he sees also the 10/9 in trumps on the table.
If Partner has two honors, he will make his tricks anyway.

From this followes: East should switch.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mcphee]

I think east just played too quickly once he seems the dummy. Did he really think that his partner raised to 4H with a stiff and had no hopes of making it? I mean its not like he has some trump stack either unless S is completely bonkers.

I would also hit 4S, all forms of scoring as I doubt they will re-double.

3H not my cup of tea, 4H better.

[Fluffy]

first round of bidding was awesome

[wank]

Fluffy, on 2013-November-02, 08:13, said:

first round of bidding was awesome

i love how north's pass, which i agree with, is the only bid to merit a ! in the annotation.

[c_corgi]

West gets a large slice of the blame for not returning the ♠K at trick 3. That leaves declarer needing to find the ♦J, which he is unlikely to achieve. There seems to be little else left to play for.

[FrancesHinden]

c_corgi, on 2013-November-02, 10:08, said:

West gets a large slice of the blame for not returning the ♠K at trick 3. That leaves declarer needing to find the ♦J, which he is unlikely to achieve. There seems to be little else left to play for.

I was wondering how declarer had made it. The OP didn't seem to say what happened at trick 3.
The CA would also have done.

[c_corgi]

FrancesHinden, on 2013-November-03, 05:50, said:

I was wondering how declarer had made it. The OP didn't seem to say what happened at trick 3.
The CA would also have done.

Doesn't ♣A set up the ♣K, which together with the 3rd heart can be used to pitch the 3rd and 4th diamonds?

I have no inside knowledge, I just thought the OP suggested declarer cashed the ♠A rather than having it done for him.

[manudude03]

I'm a little confused here. Declarer isn't really going to take a trump finesse here, so isn't it always -1, losing 1 in every suit? Declarer can always later throw 2 diamonds on the king of clubs and the third heart. And if West ducks the club, it's now a diamond guess for making (or -1 if wrong).

edit: Well OK, if East doesn't return a heart, declarer might finesse if West is known for frisky doubles.... but even then, it doesnt seem to cost.

[HighLow21]

wank, on 2013-November-02, 09:32, said:

i love how north's pass, which i agree with, is the only bid to merit a ! in the annotation.

And it's the only bid I agree with.

[RSClyde]

East is out of his mind bidding only 3♥ white vs red with 8!
I'm bidding 3♠ with the south hand: stating a silly rule like "I don't preempt over their preempt" caters only to living fear of your partner. 4♠ can easily be making on a hand where partner can't take action: K of spades KJx(x) of diamonds should do it and that's a 7 count. You could add several high card points and partner can't find a call over 3♥ P P
and certainly over 3♥ P 4♥. The person who has a place to play has to show it, expecting partner to balance back in on a weak no trump is unrealistic. Trying to stir "hand ownership" into an auction like this is too inflexible.

[sathyab]

Bidding and play are two different things. E-W bidding will probably not be written up in BW, well not as an example of how to bid for sure. But bad/gamble or however else you want to characterize the double by West, it definitely clued East to play him for quick tricks in his hand. If West passed it's not unreasonable for North to raise to 4♠. If West simply led a ♥ now, is the defense any easier ?