[jillybean]

After asking to see an opposing teams convention card during a Sectional last weekend, I received the following comment:

We play duplicate mainly for the social aspect and wish it to be a pleasant experience. It would be appreciated if you would lighten up about convention cards and just ask if there's anything you want to know.
I have played in hundreds of tournament games, you are only the second player to make such a fuss.

"Just ask if there is anything you want to know"

I don't like asking because it creates potential UI for my partner and has the potential of waking up my opponents.
Not to mention if there is a misbid/mis explanation to sort out the director will have nothing to refer to.

The directors around here don't like or won't deal with "no convention card" calls in BCD, it doesn't happen in A/X

I think the only solution is to stop playing in BCD (as has been suggested before)

[Trinidad]

jillybean, on 2013-November-12, 23:14, said:

After asking to see an opposing teams convention card during a Sectional last weekend, I received the following comment:

We play duplicate mainly for the social aspect and wish it to be a pleasant experience. It would be appreciated if you would lighten up about convention cards and just ask if there's anything you want to know.
I have played in hundreds of tournament games, you are only the second player to make such a fuss.

I suppose replying:

We play duplicate mainly for the competitive aspect and wish it to be a pleasant experience. It would be appreciated if you would lighten up about people asking for convention cards and just provide them -in accordance with the rules- so we can have this pleasant experience instead of you creating a fuss to mask your own laziness.
I have played in hundreds of tournament games, you are only the second player to make such a fuss.

doesn't really work.

Rik

[jillybean]

Trinidad, on 2013-November-13, 00:58, said:

I suppose replying:

We play duplicate mainly for the competitive aspect and wish it to be a pleasant experience. It would be appreciated if you would lighten up about people asking for convention cards and just provide them -in accordance with the rules- so we can have this pleasant experience instead of you creating a fuss to mask your own laziness.
I have played in hundreds of tournament games, you are only the second player to make such a fuss.

doesn't really work.

Rik

I like this!

[chrism]

I am surprised that the directors aren't more helpful, but they may be following the wishes of the tournament chair. I suggest that you raise your concern with the tournament committee; either they will echo what the directors are saying, in which case you will know that this is just how they want their tournament to be run, or they will ask the directing staff to enforce the regulation more actively.

[blackshoe]

I may be mistaken, but I don't believe the tournament chair of an ACBL tournament has the option to disallow the enforcement of ACBL regulations. That said, this may well be another area where the ACBL's backing of their own stated policies (if I'm right it'll be stated in the ACBL Handbook) is somewhat lacking.

[chrism]

blackshoe, on 2013-November-13, 06:53, said:

I may be mistaken, but I don't believe the tournament chair of an ACBL tournament has the option to disallow the enforcement of ACBL regulations. That said, this may well be another area where the ACBL's backing of their own stated policies (if I'm right it'll be stated in the ACBL Handbook) is somewhat lacking.

You are, of course, correct. The sponsors do, however, have considerable influence - and rightly so, since it is their tournament. If they ask that certain groups be treated with a particularly gentle hand, or that time restrictions be enforced strictly or loosely, or similar requests about directorial approach, the TDs should pay attention. Without explicit guidance from the sponsor, of course, the CC regulation should be enforced at all levels, with a degree of tact or firmness that depended on the experience and level of the offending pair.

It certainly sounds as though the pair in the OP need to be educated, and it is surprising and alarming to me that they have managed to get through "hundreds of tournament games" without receiving such education (if, indeed, they have - I would take their assertion with a pinch of salt).

[jillybean]

I am on the Unit Board, and TC for some of our tournaments. We do not give the Directors directives on how, or which laws to apply but
perhaps we should talk!

This post has been edited by jillybean: 2013-November-15, 20:10

[barmar]

jillybean, on 2013-November-12, 23:14, said:

I don't like asking because it creates potential UI for my partner and has the potential of waking up my opponents.

You're right about the possible wakeups, but one can hope that the opponents would "lighten up" about your partner's UI issues, since they deliberately caused them.

[chrism]

jillybean, on 2013-November-13, 09:35, said:

I am on the Unit Board, and TC for some of our tournaments. We do not give the Directors directions on how, or which laws to apply but I think
it is time we did.

I don't think there should be any question about which Laws to apply - "all of them" is the only option - but you definitely need to discuss with the DIC your expectations on the way in which regulations are to be enforced and the degree of flexibility your customers should expect. I trust that you will find the directing staff responsive, but if not, you should pursue the matter further with the ACBL in your tournament evaluation forms and by direct correspondence.

[wyman]

jillybean, on 2013-November-12, 23:14, said:

I think the only solution is to stop playing in BCD (as has been suggested before)

.

[jillybean]

wyman, on 2013-November-13, 09:44, said:

I think the only solution is to stop playing in BCD (as has been suggested before)

This is what I want to do but unless I am playing with an A partner it is difficult to convince BCD teams that we should play up.
So it's "A/X or nothing" and I am beginning to think that is what I should do.

[wyman]

My attitude is: how good do you feel when you win a BCD tournament? You know you played against a poor field and probably got away with a lot of mistakes. If you find someone who wants to play the game at a high level, it's worth it to start playing against people at that level now. It's humbling to go 0-8 in an AX Swiss, but then next time you feel good about 1-7. And eventually, you've got a team of players under 1k MPs who are winning open regionals and placing in national events.

And, to boot, at least you have an X. When I started playing up with my friends in Michigan, A/X swisses had about 10-12 teams to BCD's ump-teen, and we were the ONLY team that would have qualified as X, so there was no X. We had some rough swisses
And to add to the "how good you feel" bit -- how BAD do you feel when you expect to win the thing and end up losing?

[GreenMan]

What Wyman said. I was on a semiregular team a few years ago that won a BCD Swiss pretty easily and decided it wasn't as much fun as placing in A/X would be. So with one exception we've always played up since then. (The exception was a surprisingly poor showing, which cemented our determination to play A/X -- if we're going to have a bad outing we need to be able to blame the strong competition. )

[hrothgar]

jillybean, on 2013-November-12, 23:14, said:

The directors around here don't like or won't deal with "no convention card" calls in BCD, it doesn't happen in A/X

Replace the directors

[richlp]

jillybean, on 2013-November-13, 09:58, said:

This is what I want to do but unless I am playing with an A partner it is difficult to convince BCD teams that we should play up.
So it's "A/X or nothing" and I am beginning to think that is what I should do.

Just my opinion.........

Small brag ... my favorite hand for the past several years had a many-time national champion congratulating me for playing a hand well. The client at the other table failed to make the crucial play and the board made the difference in the match. These are the kinds of things that keep the game exciting after several decades of play.

The relevance is that, for a serious bridge player which - judging by your concern for following the rules - you are, playing "good bridge" is more important than winning. Showing well against an expert provides more satisfaction that beating a mistake prone team.

Perhaps not right away, but my guess is that it shouldn't take too long, you will find that if you play well you will hit the overalls in the "X" bracket (and eventually the "A" bracket). If you don't play well, you're probably not going to do very well in the BCD anyway (and even if you do, what's the satisfaction of being the least bad team in the field?)

[Zelandakh]

I like Rik's answer too. Another one would be to agree providing the opps accept that any question asked by your side is AI to you and UI to them. Since they are making their own table ruling on CCs it seems only fair that you make your own table ruling on questions.

As an aside, I have met many pairs who say things like social bridge or kitchen bridge in response to questions or in relation to responsibilities. I have yet to actually meet such a pair that was not (quite obviously) using it to avoid giving full disclosure or trying to gain an advantage. Real social pairs do not come out with statements like this one; they rather look apologetic and guilty and bumble something about not having one available or finding it too complicated.

[Vampyr]

This is too bad. Convention cards are required in the EBU, and often there is a table-by-table check at the beginning of a tournament.

I understand what BCD means, but what is A/X?

[blackshoe]

jillybean, on 2013-November-13, 09:35, said:

I am on the Unit Board, and TC for some of our tournaments. We do not give the Directors directives on how, or which laws to apply but I think
it is time we did.

I'm not sure I'd give him instructions. A quiet talk to suggest making sure all the regulations are enforced, including the CC regs, should suffice — and if it doesn't you can always complain to his boss.

[blackshoe]

Vampyr, on 2013-November-13, 12:29, said:

This is too bad. Convention cards are required in the EBU, and often there is a table-by-table check at the beginning of a tournament.

I understand what BCD means, but what is A/X?

Some events are "strati-flighted" in which case Flight A would be stratified into A and X (X being basically everybody who plays up).

[Trinidad]

I can only add to what Richlp said:

My partner and I were playing the 499-ers, straight out of the bridge class. After winning a few of those, we had "amassed" about 1.98 master points. When the next tournament came, the TD obviously already knew who we were and he suggested that we play in the open stratified pairs. I was completely stunned and my partner even more. We didn't even have a fraction of the 499 master point limit.

I said something about our very limited master point total. He replied that it was our decision and that we would definitely be eligible to play the 499-ers, but that he thought it would be more fun for us to play in the open. We looked at each other, solved the logistical problem of having to play 2 sessions instead of only one, and gave it a try.

We had a great time in the open and never went back to the 499-ers. Obviously, our CC made it perfectly clear that we were beginners (we weren't even playing negative doubles or Jacoby transfers), but that only made some of the players (and some kibs) more enthusiastic. During the dinner break one of the pros came to see us and congratulated us for preempting them out of a cold slam.

... And other than having more fun, we also learned a lot more in the open. And, much to our surprise, we were doing all right there.

Rik