[dorisga44]

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Teams.

Would you bid on?

[kenrexford]

No. But, this is because I am making an assumption.

Partner redoubled to show first round spade control. This suggests that he shows controls when possibly relevant information. I do also. I in his seat would never bid 4H with a club control for this reason. Hence, 6H is hopeless on a club lead.

The strange thing, though, is trying to figure out what partner has for the auction if that is right. I think he tends to have an unexpected doubleton in clubs, Qx or Jx or QX tight, a lot.

[MrAce]

kenrexford, on 2014-January-19, 07:00, said:

The strange thing, though, is trying to figure out what partner has for the auction if that is right. I think he tends to have an unexpected doubleton in clubs, Qx or Jx or QX tight, a lot.

Even then he must have something like

AKQx
AKxx
Qxx
Qx

which does not explain the double of 3♠

[kenrexford]

MrAce, on 2014-January-19, 07:32, said:

Even then he must have something like

AKQx
AKxx
Qxx
Qx

which does not explain the double of 3♠

I was thinking maybe
AK
AKxx
Qx xxx
QJ,
Upgraded because of the shape. The pass-then double would be on something like QJxxx and a club honor, hoping for a lead of Ace or King and an entry.

But, this is obviously dubious without knowing Opener.

[MrAce]

Yep there are things in the auction that does not add up, but so in real life. Frankly it is a good topic. If i knew pd denied club control, i would be done with bidding, obviously. I am not one of those though, trying to show my controls in every opportunity, after all pd might be just looking for game and if so, i would try to avoid giving too much info about my hand.

I may be way too primitive, 4 NT by responder here is rkcb for me. 4♠ would be something like last train, even though it will bring us to 5 level. But i am ready to listen and be convinced if there are better approaches in that type of auction, Frankly idk what to do with this. I feel like i need to do something between pass and bidding slam, however i don't even know how this would help my pd to evaluate his hand. I can construct some 19 hcps hands where slam is cold and some 22 hcps where slam is not good.

But my personal experiences telling me to make at least 1 more move before deciding something. The losses i had over the years by not bidding a slam when our side has a fit and 31+ hcp, is way more than the ones i lost by bidding a slam that does not make.

[WGF_Flame]

I understand the logic of passing since partner suppose to bid 4♣ with a club control, but I feel its a bit to much to assume with my kind of partnerships.
I wouldnt be surprose to see that partners redouble was just offering to play there, and 4♥ just natural.
Since the double make my hand a bit better I would continue.

[kenrexford]

I agree except that xx was defined as a control bid already. This suggests a control centric approach.

[aguahombre]

What did Responder know at the point he bid 3NT? He did not know Opener had four hearts, and his 3NT bid (passable) did not show the strength he actually had.

What did Opener know at the point she bid 4H? She knew what Responder had undershown and could assume slam is out. She would not risk a Club cue with a control and four cards in hearts to wrong-side the alledged game contract.

What to do now? It's just a guess for Responder because of the 3NT bid. He was, IMO, obligated to bid 4NT or 4D on that round, according to taste, rather than offer a signoff and then figure out whether to bid again.

[mcphee]

The thing I do not quite follow about this auction is why the re-double? This was to allow us to play 3NT or to show that S control IN CASE responder has a slam try? I know had I bid simple stayman and partner responded in H I would next bid 3S which would be a balanced slam try, I have it. So based on this I feel it is hard not to make a further bid, but without more knowledge of this redouble awkward. As if H holds the AS plus the AK of trumps I can not imagine them not having a C card in spite of them not bidding it. I suppose I have to take the low road and pass.

[kenrexford]

A club cue doesn't wrong side the contract because Responder can retransfer.

[Trinidad]

What did 3NT mean in a cue bidding situation?

Rik

[kenrexford]

Trinidad, on 2014-January-19, 12:40, said:

What did 3NT mean in a cue bidding situation?

Rik

If 3NT was a cue because XX had shown a fit, then probably "serious" in context of a passed hand. Tactical meaning. Enabled a club cue.

[mike777]

Yes I bid on.

I don't think pard denied a club control.

fwiw wish I had opened one club.

[Trinidad]

kenrexford, on 2014-January-19, 13:46, said:

If 3NT was a cue because XX had shown a fit, then probably "serious" in context of a passed hand. Tactical meaning. Enabled a club cue.

Both are plausible and "inconvenient cue" (showing diamond control) is possible too. In these three cases, 4♥ denied a club cue. But given that all bids before 3NT have been explained in the auction and 3NT wasn't, I don't know what to make of it. You would think that the OP would explain if there was an agreement.

I think it is quite possible that West thought 3NT was an offer to play there, despite the known heart fit. (I even think it is possible that 3NT was intended as an offer to play there.)

Rik

[kenrexford]

Of course. But the only meaning for 3NT that would stop a cuebid heavy opener from cue bidding clubs is if 3NT was a denial cuebid for diamonds.

[PhilKing]

At the point we bid 3♠, hearts had not been agreed, so redouble should be an offer to play a 4-3 fit (this is my meta agreement for these situations and costs exactly nothing).

That being said, almost no partnerships are on entirely firm ground here, so I would expect partner bid 4♥ either because he wanted to clarify the situation (although 4♣ would do that as well) or because he assumed 3NT was the end of any slam ambitions and was just offering choice, in which case cueing would be fatuous.

As bid, I am just driving to slam - the constructions where partner has no club control do not stack up. He made a slam try opposite a passed hand, so unless he has made a mistake, slam should be excellent with the spade king onside.

[dorisga44]

Thanks all for your replies, been too busy to write up the hand. Alas, partners hand was:

---

Due to playing together for the first time, we had no real agreements about XX's and I wondered where all her points would be located. I asked for keycards and drove to slam after hearing she had 4.

[PhilKing]

dorisga44, on 2014-January-26, 17:53, said:

Thanks all for your replies, been too busy to write up the hand. Alas, partners hand was:

---

Due to playing together for the first time, we had no real agreements about XX's and I wondered where all her points would be located. I asked for keycards and drove to slam after hearing she had 4.

I might be being a bit thick, but we have twelve tricks on normal breaks, and can even cater for 4-1 trumps if they hold diamond length as well.

[Zelandakh]

More to the point, why did partner bid 4♥ rather than 4♣?

[dorisga44]

PhilKing, on 2014-January-26, 18:36, said:

I might be being a bit thick, but we have twelve tricks on normal breaks, and can even cater for 4-1 trumps if they hold diamond length as well.

Suits behaved and yes, she made 12 tricks in 6♥