[eagles123]

I was shown this hand in a teaching session, both hands were shown and when I said what I though N should bid teacher basically said I was resulting! maybe I was but I thought what I suggested was fairly clear so just looking for opinions

I'll post full hand later.

System is Benji Acol: a 2C opening would have shown an 8 playing trick hand. 1NT is old fashioned ACOL non-forcing. Vulnerability unknown, form of scoring MP in a fairly weak field.

---

thanks,

Eagles

[Cyberyeti]

You bid 3N and dummy had xxx, xx, Axxx, J109x ? The teacher said bid 3♥ ?

I'd probably bid 2♠ on this hand as a probe, as if partner shows stops with 2N I'm bidding 3, if he bids 3♠ I bid 4♥, hopefully he has KQx, xx, xxxx, xxxx.

[billw55]

I would open 1♥, and rebid 3♥ over most responses including 1NT.

Quote

System is Benji Acol: a 2C opening would have shown an 8 playing trick hand.

I am not knowledgeable on this system, but doesn't this hand have 8 playing tricks?

[broze]

4H. Not good enough for 4C, too good for 3H. Not good enough for 3NT whatever it means. 4H plays opposite KQD and out for example.

[helene_t]

I voted for 3♥ but it is a bit of a blame transfer. Partner won't know that we need help in diamonds and spades, but not in hearts. So maybe we should just bid 4♥.

[Cyberyeti]

billw55, on 2014-March-21, 07:28, said:

I am not knowledgeable on this system, but doesn't this hand have 8 playing tricks?

Yes it does, but I don't think it's actually an EBU legal 2♣ opener as (points+length of 2 longest suits<25) and it doesn't have 8 clear cut tricks (you budget for a heart loser by that definition).

[ggwhiz]

I voted for 3♥ too.

It's not perfect. We will miss a heart game opposite some crumbs but get to 3nt opposite others.

[mike777]

3nt
I like to bid games

[aguahombre]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-March-21, 09:03, said:

Yes it does, but I don't think it's actually an EBU legal 2♣ opener as (points+length of 2 longest suits<25) and it doesn't have 8 clear cut tricks (you budget for a heart loser by that definition).

I don't think I would like a jurisdiction where a suit likely to play for 7 tricks opposite a void is not allowed to be called 7 tricks, and a 2C opening with 8 tricks is permissible, but only if we meet some other arbitrary "rule of..." requirement. Benji Acol sure sounds like a British style, and I assume you are allowed to use it there.

This doesn't imply that my style lets me open 2C with this hand; only that the OP's stated conditions do allow for it. I hope the ACBL lets me call this 8 real for hearts, so I can use our NAMYATS 4C toy.

[helene_t]

Change ♥T to ♥J and it becomes a legal 2♣ opening but that doesn't mean that 2♣ would be a good choice. It also fits the definition of a 1♥ opening so you have a (better) choice.

[Cyberyeti]

aguahombre, on 2014-March-21, 09:33, said:

I don't think I would like a jurisdiction where a suit likely to play for 7 tricks opposite a void is not allowed to be called 7 tricks, and a 2C opening with 8 tricks is permissible, but only if we meet some other arbitrary "rule of..." requirement. Benji Acol sure sounds like a British style, and I assume you are allowed to use it there.

This doesn't imply that my style lets me open 2C with this hand; only that the OP's stated conditions do allow for it. I hope the ACBL lets me call this 8 real for hearts, so I can use our NAMYATS 4C toy.

The definition of clear cut tricks is not arbitrary, basically take your suit, give partner a void, take the second most favourable break ie 4-2 with the high cards in the long hand for clear cut tricks (and there's a HCP restriction which this hand meets). Benji Acol is legal, what they were trying to legislate against is actually a different issue, you can open this hand a strong 2♥ provided your disclosure is adequate, but what they didn't want was people opening a technically "strong" 2♣ with AKQ to 8 and out ie not a strong hand.

[the_clown]

3N or 4♥ could be right, not bidding game would never occur to me.

[Vampyr]

aguahombre, on 2014-March-21, 09:33, said:

2C opening with 8 tricks is permissible, but only if we meet some other arbitrary "rule of..." requirement. Benji Acol sure sounds like a British style, and I assume you are allowed to use it there.

You don't have it quite right. In Benji a 2 ♣ opener is defined as 8 playing tricks, perhaps with a balanced option (and I believe it should have opening HCP); it is a 2♦ opener which must meet the extended rule of 25.

[neilkaz]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-March-21, 06:52, said:

You bid 3N and dummy had xxx, xx, Axxx, J109x ? The teacher said bid 3♥ ?

I'd probably bid 2♠ on this hand as a probe, as if partner shows stops with 2N I'm bidding 3, if he bids 3♠ I bid 4♥, hopefully he has KQx, xx, xxxx, xxxx.

I like this idea. Hopefully PD is not permitted to jump to 4♠ thinking that you have a 5-6 major suit monster.

[aguahombre]

I didn't know the EBU had official dogma about solid 7-card suits. On my planet, AKQTXXX, requiring 33 or doubleton jack if pard is void, and much less if partner has one, is acceptable to be called a solid 7 tricks.

[kenrexford]

I have often wondered. In this sequence, a rebid by Opener of 2S as a true suit reverse to force seems somewhat wasted, because partner assuredly lacks a 4-card spade suit. This seems like the one reverse sequence that is most useful as a fudged artificial force, and yet it is also the most likely to be missed as an option to solve bidding problems. Must be the more against faking spades.

I mean, here's a three - card fragment just sitting there begging for a mention. If Opener obliges, good things can happen. Maybe partner shows a doubleton heart with a non - bust hand. Maybe he shows a diamond suit. Maybe he raises spades. Worst case is a 2NT reply, but how bad is that?

[eagles123]

thanks folks, interesting stuff. I thought it was a 4♣ bid and the more I looked at it the more I thought so and I say this because the system is benji. I.e. if it was any stronger it would be a 2♣ opening so the self splinter would be limited by the fact the hand hadn't opened with 2♣

but as I say probably just resulting, other hand was

xxx
x
AKQxx
xxxx

[mike777]

eagles123, on 2014-March-21, 15:54, said:

thanks folks, interesting stuff. I thought it was a 4♣ bid and the more I looked at it the more I thought so and I say this because the system is benji. I.e. if it was any stronger it would be a 2♣ opening so the self splinter would be limited by the fact the hand hadn't opened with 2♣

but as I say probably just resulting, other hand was

xxx
x
AKQxx
xxxx

If 3nt rebid shows solid h and a big hand that at least gives responder an option to pass or bid.
otoh if you play 3nt here as somewhat random...tougher.

[Cyberyeti]

eagles123, on 2014-March-21, 15:54, said:

thanks folks, interesting stuff. I thought it was a 4♣ bid and the more I looked at it the more I thought so and I say this because the system is benji. I.e. if it was any stronger it would be a 2♣ opening so the self splinter would be limited by the fact the hand hadn't opened with 2♣

but as I say probably just resulting, other hand was

xxx
x
AKQxx
xxxx

My partner always has xxx, x, xxxx, KQJxx when I autosplinter 4♥-2

He certainly doesn't have what you posted as he bid 2♦ with that

[steve2005]

I rebid 4♣ hopefully a self-splinter with solid ♥ and not the usually useless Gerber.

and I agree this is a 2♣ Benji opening. AKQ 7th is good enough for 6-card suit would need AKQJ. it just plain statistics like
aguahombre said