[diana_eva]

IMPs. Random pd and opps. System is 2/1 if it matters, but no thorough agreements other than "2/1 std OK?"

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[whereagles]

Think I've got enough for ye olde 4NT

[helene_t]

4nt. I will bid 7 opposite three key cards and the queen.

It could go wrong. P might take my 5d queen ask as to play.so maybe better to forget about the queen or to use 5h instead. We could also have a diamond loser. But opposite a real 2c opening I like my chances. And even something silly like akqxxxx xx ax xx should be fine

[diana_eva]

 whereagles, on 2014-September-22, 09:51, said:

Think I've got enough for ye olde 4NT

Pd will respond 5♣, showing 0-3 keys. East doubles. Back to you.

Edit: If you plan to ask for trump Q, pd will know what you mean, but you have not discussed responses.

[Lord Molyb]

4NT, hoping partner and I both play the same responses.

Now that I've seen the above, he probably has all 3 key cards so I will ask for the queen which would probably be safest with 5♥.

This post has been edited by Lord Molyb: 2014-September-22, 12:03

[mikeh]

I think what one does depends on one's plans/hopes for this partnership.

Unless I had reasons to keep playing with someone who knows little about the game, I will assume he knows what he is doing, and thus I will bid 4N.

Over the double of 5♣ I will bid 5♥(for the reasons explained by helene).

So I don't know what his answers mean?

If he bids 5♠, I will bid 6.

If he bids anything else, I will bid 7♠

I actually think 7N rates to be a good spot, but I see almost zero chance that 7♠ fails and 7N makes, and if partner has screwed up then 7♠ rates to fail by less than 7N.

In fact, this is my plan regardless of my hopes for the partnership. If partner has his values, we should end up in a fine spot, and he'll appreciate that I knew what I was doing, which bodes well for playing with this partner again. Meanwhile, were I to hedge and miss a good spot, either he'll know that I thought he was ignorant, or he'll think I'm ignorant, and in both cases, the odds are that this partnership will not last long nor be as enjoyable as it should be.

[whereagles]

If I'm not totally sure of responses/follow-ups to the queen ask, I'll just bid 6♠. Besides, random pards sometimes mess up the play and end up a few tricks too short LOL.

I wouldn't put 7NT in the picture.. might need to ruff a diamond to set them up.

[diana_eva]

OK thanks for the replies. I was North, pd was a friend - so not really a questions of trust. He did trust me, but got confused because continuations were muddy so he just bid 6♠ thinking we shd be fine there overall. I thought the hand was interesting because my feeling was it doesn't matter whether we have any detailed agreements. All he had to do was keep the bidding open with *something*, I'd bid 6♣ next and then he can comfortably bid the grand.

Edit: I said "random pd" in the OP because this was our first time playing together Sorry if it sounded inconsistent LOL - "random" as in we had very few agreements and tons of misunderstandings but otherwise there was trust.

This post has been edited by diana_eva: 2014-September-22, 15:41

[wank]

surely 4s shows solid spades. this isn't an auction for fast arrival lol.

if i only had 1 call it would be 7s and i would be thinking it was 85%+ to be cold.

[helene_t]

Now that east told me that the club finesse works, maybe 7nt is better. P must have something in diamonds and we could be down in 7s on a diamond ruff.

[diana_eva]

Full hand for anyone curious. Was a pretty one:

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[Cascade]

 diana_eva, on 2014-September-23, 03:39, said:

Full hand for anyone curious. Was a pretty one:

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Technical thought. Over the double of 5♣ I think that pass should be the queen ask.

[Bbradley62]

There's got to be a way for North to take control: there are only 2 cards you need to know about.

[Shugart23]

Precision bidding finds it in a heartbeat. 1C strong then 2D by South shows 5+ Diamonds and 8+ HCP (denies 4 card Major for me) then North bids 2H asking for controls and South responds showing 5 Controls (2 Aces and a King)and its 7NT by North

[mikeh]

 Shugart23, on 2014-September-23, 12:07, said:

Precision bidding finds it in a heartbeat. 1C strong then 2D by South shows 5+ Diamonds and 8+ HCP (denies 4 card Major for me) then North bids 2H asking for controls and South responds showing 5 Controls (2 Aces and a King)and its 7NT by North

Must be nice to play a method that bars the opps from preempting

[helene_t]

Yeah good hand for a specific ace ask opening

[mikeh]

 helene_t, on 2014-September-23, 12:09, said:

Yeah good hand for a specific ace ask opening

Where is the schenken 2♦ opening bid when one needs it? I actually played schenken when I started out, and I think that the bid came up twice (and in university we played a LOT of bridge).

Otoh, opening 4N would have worked as well, tho it risks down 1 in 5♠ on a bad day.

[Shugart23]

 mikeh, on 2014-September-23, 12:08, said:

Must be nice to play a method that bars the opps from preempting

lol...I didn't see that, but makes no difference...1C by North, 2H by East 3D, by South (game force, 8+ HCP 5+ Diamonds), 3H by North is control asking and it is all over....(If West jumps in to bid 3 or 4H to extend the preemt, Pass by North is control asking and it is still found

[diana_eva]

Interesting. For one thing, I would have never risked a 4NT opening there, since we had so little agreements. But my core thinking was, I don't have that many HCP, so even a 1♠ opening was probably safe. Wanted to get into some cooperative cue-bidding, after having showed the hand strength and land in slam if it's there. Didn't cross my mind to take over and ask keys myself. I wonder if that is doable with no agreements.

[Bbradley62]

In the 1980s, many club players in my area played "control steps" over 2♣ openings, so pard would have shown 5 controls (A=2; K=1) making the whole thing a no-brainer.