[the hog]

This hand was posted on another forum and the discussion was varied and got quite divisive. I am interested in opinions here.
The pun in the title was intentional before anyone comments.

All red
Pd opens 1S, (x)

You hold
Kxxxxxx
Ax
xxx
x

Your bid?

[Lord Molyb]

4♠
Please tell me why this is wrong

[mgoetze]

Lord Molyb, on 2014-October-11, 18:51, said:

4♠
Please tell me why this is wrong

Well, it's not necessarily wrong, but it's extremely unlikely to be end the auction.

[1eyedjack]

Lord Molyb, on 2014-October-11, 18:51, said:

4♠
Please tell me why this is wrong

I can construct some fairly normal hands where 6S is good but expect p to pass 4S. Not that that makes any other response better than 4S, but I worry.

[chasetb]

I would prefer a couple more HCP for 4♣ (splinter), but I think that's best on this hand.

[mike777]

Bergen raises are pretty common. If we play them then I will try 4d here which shows this hand type.(well, 5-6s not 7//) 4s or 4c or a splinter bid would show something else.

The reason to play this is it may give partner a lot of information in case she needs to make some high level decision.

[the hog]

I posted this because I argued strongly against the splinter. I think to splinter on this hand is terrible. You allow the opps the entire 4 level to x or bid as well as misrepresenting the hand. Imo the splinter players are playing with themselves and forgetting the other 3 players at the table.

[Cascade]

I think it is very likely that we are going to be wanting to make the last decision on this hand. Therefore we need information. Not sure what I would bid but I am very tempted to go low.

[chasetb]

Well Hog, unless you have a mini-splinter bid (I assumed you didn't), I think the splinter bid is best. With a 7-card Spade suit (thus promising a 12-card fit) and 3 controls, how isn't this hand worth the GF? Not only that, there is no way we are going to let partner whack it, so show the shortness and then bid on over them bidding.

[gwnn]

I like the agricultural 4S then 5S. Don't let them bid their stupid minors or hearts any lower than they should be allowed to. Partner should expect 6-card ish support. The ace of hearts is a bit of an extra but what can you do.

Splintering commonly shows a hand like
Kxxx
Axxx
KJxx
x

good luck convincing partner that your actual hand is 6 cards away from that distribution (3+2+1)..

[aguahombre]

Cascade, on 2014-October-12, 00:03, said:

I think it is very likely that we are going to be wanting to make the last decision on this hand. Therefore we need information. Not sure what I would bid but I am very tempted to go low.

Likewise, I think we want information and am not sure how to go about it; but, by "go low" I assume you mean slow down --- certainly not devalue.

Agree with Mr. Hog that Splintering and intending to keep bidding afterward is bad policy, and that a direct 4S is just plain wrong.

If this were one of those Bridgewinners bidding polls, I would just hit "skip". Partner would not be amused if I tried that at the table, so 2C (xfer) it is -- I am not going to get the information necessary, but it should be interesting from there.

[PhilKing]

There was a similar hand in the Bridge World a few years ago. The point is that if partner has a moderate opening bid, there is a pretty good chance the opponents can make 5♣.

So I am going for the jugular with a 2♣ response.

[whereagles]

This hand/situation is prone to all sorts of tactical bids. Therefore there is no "right" or "wrong"... all the following bids can work well or fail miserably:

2NT Truscott
4♠ pree
5♠ superpree
3NT Truscott (if available)
4♣ (if splinter.. some play as fitbid)
2♣ psych
2♦(!) psych
Pass(!!) megapsych, hoping to walk the dog and buy it in 4♠X (fat chance lol)


I think a straight 4♠ has a decent chance to win the pot because, since we have some cards, RHO rates to have an average takeout dbl and may not want to drive to the 5 level all by himself.

[gszes]

There is no rational way to bid these cards. A splinter is hugely underpowered
and p will mistakenly think QJT987 of spades is slam excellent. The tox has
a decent chance of getting the opps off to a good start but it may not have.


Bidding something like 2c might yield some good results but will probably
end up being revealed when we support spades and will really gum up the works
when p has a good hand (more so than 4s will).

If I was going to bid at the 2 level I would prefer 2h since that at least
might be a good lead director if the opps venture to slam. This hand still feels
too preemptive but I hate to give up on slam so I will hazard a 4n key card and
bid a slam if p shows 3 else sign off in 5s unless we have the tools for p to show
2 plus a useful void.

I have no intention of letting the opps play at the 5 level anyway so maybe this 4n
(im sure it will be really popular:) will scare them off more than a 4s bid will
(my 2nd choice)

[rhm]

the hog, on 2014-October-11, 21:57, said:

I posted this because I argued strongly against the splinter. I think to splinter on this hand is terrible. You allow the opps the entire 4 level to x or bid as well as misrepresenting the hand. Imo the splinter players are playing with themselves and forgetting the other 3 players at the table.

I am not convinced. The splinter can win in many ways.
Admittedly partner needs the magic hand for 6♠, something like ♠AQJxx ♥xxx ♦x ♣AKxx if minimum.
But RHO, void in spades, might have doubled with 9 or 10 HCP and partner could well have more in HCP.
If the splinter deceives partner, it will also deceive opponents, since you are making a slam try.
They are unlikely to double you when you later compete further.
Say you bid 4♣ and let LHO in at the 4 level, who says they will not subside over a 4♠ bid thereafter?
A splinter may help partner on opening lead and find the best defense.
Incidentally I disagree that a splinter shows something like 4441. For me a splinter shows a shortage with no side suit worth bidding. Extra trump length is very welcome.

I am not claiming a splinter is great here, but who knows what is best. The splinter is slightly, not "hugely" underpowered. I think the splinter is as good as any of the alternatives.
Since partner must hold something outside of spades I would compete up to 5♠, but defend any higher contract.

Rainer Herrmann

[Fluffy]

3 card deviation is usually best psyche, 3♠ to make opponents thing partner has spade length.

I hate splinter, splinter is awful when we end up defending, which is quite likelly.

[rhm]

Fluffy, on 2014-October-13, 06:02, said:

I hate splinter, splinter is awful when we end up defending, which is quite likelly.

I do not see your point.
If partner is on lead and has the ace of clubs or the ace of trumps he will know to lead clubs and if he does not he will shy away from a club lead.
The splinter undoubtedly helps the defense.
In fact without the splinter partner is likely to lead spades, possibly given a ruff and discard at trick one.
If partner has a finessable honor in clubs whom do you expect declarer plays for when he knows most of the HCP are with opener anyway?

Rainer Herrmann

[billw55]

4♠ for me also. This is what spades are for!

Or more technically: when we might easily have less than half the values, and the deal is obviously distributional, obstruction is important.

[Fluffy]

rhm, on 2014-October-13, 06:19, said:

I do not see your point.
If partner is on lead and has the ace of clubs or the ace of trumps he will know to lead clubs and if he does not he will shy away from a club lead.
The splinter undoubtedly helps the defense.
In fact without the splinter partner is likely to lead spades, possibly given a ruff and discard at trick one.
If partner has a finessable honor in clubs whom do you expect declarer plays for when he knows most of the HCP are with opener anyway?

Rainer Herrmann

Yeah he will do a great job leading the club ace from AJx, sadly since it will be trumps it won't be very useful.

Now if some other suit becomes trumps and he has Q10xx he will also love our splinter.

[the_clown]

I would just pass and listen to the bidding, later I will save.