[blackshoe]

scarletv, on 2014-November-22, 10:30, said:

West run away sending some very unpleasant messages to me before and afterwards. That ended in adding him to the blacklist.

That's unfortunate, but it's on him, not you. You did fine.

[Trinidad]

scarletv, on 2014-November-22, 10:30, said:

West run away sending some very unpleasant messages to me before and afterwards. That ended in adding him to the blacklist.

That's what blacklists are for...

Rik

[barmar]

I'd want to know how much experience NS have playing online. If they've been playing on BBO for years, and not just with other French players, I'd expect them to know the major features of SEF that differ from what's common in other jurisdictions. They should then know that strong 2♦ is likely to be unusual to other players, and should be alerted according to the general principle that Nigel posted.

[scarletv]

South had 500 logins and North 600, both registered at the same day half a year ago. Not absolutely new but not really experienced at BBO.

West had 2600 logins, first registered 2013 and his profile says:

Quote

I play 2/1 and have a low card fo encorage, But i can play the most of system if you like.

[jfnrl]

1) French alert regulation is very light (règlement national des compétitions - French regulation):

"Article 100 – Déclarations à alerter

Seule la Loi 40 du Code International fait référence pour apprécier les déclarations devant être
alertées. Il appartient à l’arbitre de juger l’éventuel défaut d’alerte, mais il convient d’alerter toute
déclaration dont le sens inusuel ou artificiel est susceptible de tromper l’adversaire, compte tenu de
son niveau.
Tout particulièrement, on insistera pour attirer l’attention de l’adversaire quand l’alerte elle-
même peut être trompeuse ou insuffisante :
Ex : 1♣ 1♠ Contre
Le contre ne doit pas être alerté s’il s’agit d’un contre négatif (« spoutnik »), il devra l’être en
attirant particulièrement l’attention de l’adversaire s’il s’agit d’un contre punitif car cet agrément est
encore plus inusuel et trompeur."
That's all.
It can be summarised in few words "all the matter is covered by Law 40 ; alert if your bid could misleads the opponents".

2) 2D (GF in all standard français variants) is never alerted.

3) Standard français = SAYC except the folloying opening:
2C : very strong, forcing, but not GF
2D : GF
3NT : AKQxxxx in minor without any other honor

If you don't alert 2C opening (artificial 22H+ or GF), why should 2D be alerted when it is known that the system is "standard français"

4) if you consider that the standard meaning of 2D is weak, 6 cards one-suited without 4M, that is the standard meaning of the auction 2D (2H) pass (pass) 4S ?

[Bbradley62]

Trinidad, on 2014-November-22, 11:34, said:

scarletv, on 2014-November-22, 10:30, said:

West run away sending some very unpleasant messages to me before and afterwards. That ended in adding him to the blacklist.

That's what blacklists are for...

That's also what abuse@bridgebase.com is for. You should send a quick email to that address ("PlayerName got a ruling from me that he didn't like and...") so that the player can be told that his behavior is unacceptable and that a repeat performance could earn him a BBO-wide punishment. Maybe the guy has even already been reported by another abused director...

[blackshoe]

I deleted two redundant posts from jfnrl.

[scarletv]

Thanks Jnfri for clarification of the French alert rules.

@Bbradley62
thanks for your information. Tempered players are something a TD is used to.

[nige1]

hrothgar, on 2014-November-22, 08:40, said:

Lets ignore the entire question of whether or not there should have been an alert. Was there damage and did the failure to alert cause this to happen?

helene_t, on 2014-November-22, 09:17, said:

No damage so results stand.
S is told that next time he must announce but no pp since it's not materially different from all those who fail to alert transfers and artificial 2c openings
Agree with nigel btw.

Helene_T and I agree about S's failure to self-alert. Helene_t judges that it didn't cause damage. IMO, If W takes the bidding at face-vale (S has shown a pointed suit freak) then ♣A is a reasonable lead. He would probably lead something else if he realized that S's 2♦ could, by agreement, show a mountain with a singleton diamond. On a red suit lead, declarer has to guess ♣ correctly to make the contract. When W got obstreperous, however, he lost all sympathy and his case (if any).

[gordontd]

jfnrl, on 2014-November-23, 05:01, said:

If you don't alert 2C opening (artificial 22H+ or GF), why should 2D be alerted when it is known that the system is "standard français"

Most non-French players don't know that's the meaning in SEF.

We expect a strong 1C or short 1D opening to be alerted even if we know they are playing Precision.

[Trinidad]

I would go as far as to say that it is irrelevant what the meaning is in SEF.

We are playing on an international site, against people who don't even know what SEF is. We are supposed to disclose the meanings of our calls. It is irrelevant that I think that the meaning is obvious. The question is what my opponents will think. Since they are from China, Turkey, or Madagascar, they won't know what it means and I simply have to tell them, no matter how obvious this meaning is to me.

The fact that my NBO's alert regulation says that I don't have to alert it is irrelevant (though it does help in understanding, thanks jfnrl). I am not playing in my NBO.

Rik

[scarletv]

What I take for me as BBO-TD is: Players starting at BBO might not be familiar with world-alert-rules that are not even defined. So I will not punish someone quite new to BBO using his national rules instead but inform him how to do better in future. I think it would be a good idea if BBO could add a few examples to their general advice "in doubt you better alert". It might be helpful to name some examples like precision bids and maybe the strong 2♦ of SEF as well to make it easier for players that come from all over the world to know when they should be in doubt. In the end there is hardly any basis for penalty at all.

I cannot follow your argumentation Trinidad. I would have to ask for much more alerts in BBO as we actually see if I did and I am not going to make a fool out of me by doing so. You would be forced to alert bids like regular Stayman, w2, strong 2♣ openings, 1♦ opening with three cards as well with the same argumentation and for a lot of doubles and pass too. But nobody is punished for not alerting those bids.

[Bbradley62]

scarletv, on 2014-November-21, 20:51, said:

No additional rules or restrictions defined in the tourney.

scarletv, on 2014-November-24, 06:34, said:

What I take for me as BBO-TD is...

I would think the take would be that your future tournament rules should say something about alerting, although it's not clear to me how it should be worded.

[scarletv]

Bbradley62, on 2014-November-24, 08:06, said:

I would think the take would be that your future tournament rules should say something about alerting, although it's snot clear to me how it should be worded.

I forgot to mention - I did change that already for the kind of tourney where this happened. The tourney description is limited so I can only give a short rule.

Quote

You must alert and explain all artificial bids - don't forget it. When in doubt you better alert.

Any better wording appreciated.

[helene_t]

nige1, on 2014-November-23, 18:55, said:

IMO, If W takes the bidding at face-vale (S has shown a pointed suit freak) then ♣A is a reasonable lead.

Yes but if 2♦ was weak then the 4♠ bid is really strange. I think at that point W needs to ask what 2♦ meant. It would have been different if EW's auction had been influenced by the MI.

[barmar]

Trinidad, on 2014-November-24, 04:21, said:

The fact that my NBO's alert regulation says that I don't have to alert it is irrelevant (though it does help in understanding, thanks jfnrl). I am not playing in my NBO.

If you've never played outside your NBO, you may have no idea that your national system is unusual, and that other places have different alert regulations.

I doubt an American would alert a strong 2♣.