[kgr]

IMPs

---

You pass in 1st hand; and then transfer to Spade.
Partner bids reverse and this denies a 3cS.
You bid 3NT...agree with 3NT?
- 2NT would have been Lebensohl.
- 2NT followed by 3NT would have been 13-14 HCP, but after the initial pass it should show something else, probably 10-11, but no agreement.
Partner bids 4NT and you are rather sure that this is Quantitative.
Partner could also have opened the bidding with 3C if he had a GF with both minors.
Your Call?

[WesleyC]

3NT is ugly. A much more efficient agreement over reverses is first step blackout, with everything else natural and g/f. This hand would be an easy 2NT bid, leaving room for partner to describe their hand.

As it played out, I do have nice spades but the deal looks like a misfit and I've got no help for either of partner's suit so i'm going to pass.

[Fluffy]

I have a good 9, so all that matters is if partner thinks that I can have 10-11 or not. If partner is aware that I would bid 2NT+3NT with a good hand then I would accept and bid 6NT.

[whereagles]

easy pass.. you have no extras and no fillers.

[ggwhiz]

4nt is an awfully big bid opposite a passed hand. I'm expecting the ole fake diamond suit with looooooong running clubs (or at least solid) for it to make any sense and would bid 6♣ which may have extra chances.

[kgr]

kgr, on 2014-November-23, 06:05, said:

IMPs

---

You pass in 1st hand; and then transfer to Spade.
Partner bids reverse and this denies a 3cS.
You bid 3NT...agree with 3NT?
- 2NT would have been Lebensohl.
- 2NT followed by 3NT would have been 13-14 HCP, but after the initial pass it should show something else, probably 10-11, but no agreement.
Partner bids 4NT and you are rather sure that this is Quantitative.
Partner could also have opened the bidding with 3C if he had a GF with both minors.

I passed.
LHO did lead a Heart from Qxx(?); Club finesse did loose to RHO having ♣Qxx.
RHO did return a small ♠ (from KQx(?) ) and I played ♠J
Making 4NT+2

[ahydra]

I would pass - it's a misfit deal and you can only have around 30 HCPs max. (I find HCPs are surprisingly accurate when it comes to deciding whether to bid 6NT.) You got lucky with the 3-3 club split - the slam is otherwise poor.

ahydra

[whereagles]

kgr, on 2014-November-24, 04:46, said:

I passed.
LHO did lead a Heart from Qxx(?); Club finesse did loose to RHO having ♣Qxx.
RHO did return a small ♠ (from KQx(?) ) and I played ♠J
Making 4NT+2

"with a little help from my friends"

[ggwhiz]

4nt with a stiff spade and a hole in the club suit is way too ambitious opposite a passed hand imo.

[WesleyC]

ggwhiz, on 2014-November-24, 11:39, said:

4nt with a stiff spade and a hole in the club suit is way too ambitious opposite a passed hand imo.

I think the mainstream approach here is that 4NT actually implies a hand with some gaps in the minors. Responder (who's range is very tightly defined) is expected to bid slam if they have some fitting cards and pass if they don't. If north instead had solid suits and just needed 9-11 HCPs opposite to make slam, they would continue with 4C to check for controls (or simply jump to slam).

A few sample hands that make slam cold are: [Kxxxx KQxx Jx QT] or [Axxxx QJxx xx Qx] or [JTxx KQx Jxx Qxx].

A simple rule that I'm guilty of occasionally forgetting is: "On a misfit deal, you actually need 34 HCP to make 6NT."

[whereagles]

WesleyC, on 2014-November-24, 21:10, said:

"On a misfit deal, you actually need 34 HCP to make 6NT."

It's not that simple. Book "Thinking about imps", by John Boederer(sp?) has some statistics on the subject. I'm quoting by heart, but it was something like this:

4333 opposite 4333 requires 34 HCP. (More if mirrored)
4333 opposite 4432 requires 33 HCP.
4432 opposite 4432 requires 32 HCP. (Non mirrored, ofc.)

This wasn't focused, but cases of misfitted 55s (e.g. 5-5-2-1 bd 1-2-5-5) probably require even more than 34.

[jogs]

kgr, on 2014-November-24, 04:46, said:

I passed.
LHO did lead a Heart from Qxx(?); Club finesse did loose to RHO having ♣Qxx.
RHO did return a small ♠ (from KQx(?) ) and I played ♠J
Making 4NT+2

C'mon man! To make 12 tricks they have to help you.

[kgr]

jogs, on 2014-November-28, 10:01, said:

C'mon man! To make 12 tricks they have to help you.

Yes, I simply stated actual bidding and result. I didn't want to suggest that we should have gone to slam

[chasetb]

When you get into misfits, especially ones that are greater than 5-card suits in each hand, the HCP needed is higher, especially if the points don't fit properly. I don't have the hand records, but once at a club game, partner and I had a Strong Club relay auction to 6NT, with her 16 HCP 4450 opposite my 18 HCP 3316. We were missing both Major suit Jacks, both minor suit Queens, all four Tens, and two or three Nines. Neither minor broke and Clubs were 5-2, but the opponents dropped a trick, holding us to just -1. While in theory we had everything, the fact is going in we had no quick losers, but only 10 tricks. Move a Queen to Clubs and add the Ten, and then 6NT is the place to be.

There did end up being two positives - I feel I can now evaluate hand much better because of that near bottom board, and it helped improve that part of the auction, to where we can now stop in 4NT with similar hands.

[Zzjurt]

If you can't bid 2NT and 3♥ is asking your best guess might be 3NT
I am not pleased with 4NT. With no length in the minors I wont accept the invite for 6NT

[lowerline]

kgr, on 2014-November-23, 06:05, said:

IMPs

---

You pass in 1st hand; and then transfer to Spade.
Partner bids reverse and this denies a 3cS.
You bid 3NT...agree with 3NT?
- 2NT would have been Lebensohl.
- 2NT followed by 3NT would have been 13-14 HCP, but after the initial pass it should show something else, probably 10-11, but no agreement.
Partner bids 4NT and you are rather sure that this is Quantitative.
Partner could also have opened the bidding with 3C if he had a GF with both minors.
Your Call?

Partner knows you are a passed hand. You have a maximum. Bid 6nt.

S.