[koontal]

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Its happend on last West-Bengal state championship.THe bidding
N W S E
1D 1S 2H(F) P
3D P 3S P
4H P 5H(LONG PAUSE) P
6H ALL PASS

South taking nearly 6 minuits to bid 5hearts ,and after that that north bid 6h.I just want to know can north entitled to bid 6H after south long delay.

The hands
NORTH
S 2 3
H K 4
D AKQ5678
C 87


SOUTH
S AK45
H AQ5678
D VOID
C AK4

The rulling is 6H bid stand.

from indranil

This post has been edited by blackshoe: 2014-December-15, 09:37
Reason for edit: Added bidding diagram, assuming none vul.

[gordontd]

I think we need to know the meaning of an in tempo 5H bid in order to determine what is suggested by a slow 5H bid.

[weejonnie]

I assume South wanted to ask for key cards but was too scared to bid 4NT as a single response would not tell him whether the KH or AD was missing.

Bidding 5 Hearts would normally be a request to bid 6H with good trumps. North has the King of trumps (which is worth an extra one) and a source of tricks. However the SOP would be to poll North's peers and ask if they would raise on the sequence given.

[RMB1]

weejonnie, on 2014-December-15, 05:56, said:

However the SOP would be to poll North's peers and ask if they would raise on the sequence given.

If the poll shows Pass is a logical alternative, we also have to decide what is suggested by a slow 5♥.
If South were thinking about which try to make then I am not sure what is suggested.
If South were thinking about bidding 6♥ directly then 6♥ is suggested over Pass.
If South were thinking about not bidding at all then Pass is suggested over 6♥.

[helene_t]

Such a 5h bid will normally be slow since he will usually consider Blackwood or a cuebid. And as Robin says, it could also be that pass rather than 6h is suggested.

So probably the result should stand.

[gordontd]

weejonnie, on 2014-December-15, 05:56, said:

Bidding 5 Hearts would normally be a request to bid 6H with good trumps.

Not in my opinion: it would normally ask for control of the opponents' suit in a contested auction. However, I realise there may be other agreements which is why I think we need to know what they play it as meaning, in order to work out what a slow 5H bid means.

[blackshoe]

RMB1, on 2014-December-15, 06:22, said:

If the poll shows Pass is a logical alternative, we also have to decide what is suggested by a slow 5♥.
If South were thinking about which try to make then I am not sure what is suggested.
If South were thinking about bidding 6♥ directly then 6♥ is suggested over Pass.
If South were thinking about not bidding at all then Pass is suggested over 6♥.

All true. See below.

helene_t, on 2014-December-15, 06:43, said:

Such a 5h bid will normally be slow since he will usually consider Blackwood or a cuebid. And as Robin says, it could also be that pass rather than 6h is suggested.

So probably the result should stand.

Maybe. See below.

gordontd, on 2014-December-15, 09:18, said:

Not in my opinion: it would normally ask for control of the opponents' suit in a contested auction. However, I realise there may be other agreements which is why I think we need to know what they play it as meaning, in order to work out what a slow 5H bid means.

Yes.

The actual wording of the law is "could demonstrably have been suggested over another by the extraneous information." I think we can demonstrate how pass might have been suggested over 6♥, and vice-versa. So either 1) whichever choice North makes, if it's successful, we roll it back or 2) we try to figure out enough about what South was thinking to eliminate one of the options. I'm not sure the second procedure would be legal, and I'm not sure "damned whatever you do" is how we want to rule. So what do we do?

Normally a bit slow is one thing, but six minutes?! Even accounting for time distortion in the perception of the OP or whoever at the table claimed it was that long, six minutes is a very long time. Well, maybe not in a state championship. Are such pauses not unusual in this event?

I'd ask for an explanation of the entire auction. In particular, in addition to the meaning of 5♥, what's the meaning of 3♠?

[steve2005]

K♥ and solid ♦ whose going to pass 5♥? not anyone I play with.

[gordontd]

steve2005, on 2014-December-15, 18:17, said:

K♥ and solid ♦ whose going to pass 5♥? not anyone I play with.

I would if I could trust that my partner is telling me we have two spade losers off the top.