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How Many Hearts

#1 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2015-April-09, 15:52

w/w mp

(p)p(1s)

xx
AT987654
qxx
-

weakish field

cheers

Eagles
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#2 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2015-April-09, 15:56

4
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#3 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2015-April-09, 15:57

4 feels right, but maybe if the field is not just weakish but truly weak then 3 might be more successful.
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
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#4 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2015-April-09, 16:28

agree with 4h

I guess if I want to be more random with my preempts I could pass here.
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#5 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2015-April-09, 16:29

View Postmgoetze, on 2015-April-09, 15:57, said:

4 feels right, but maybe if the field is not just weakish but truly weak then 3 might be more successful.

We agree. Based on the weakish description I go for 4♥.
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#6 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2015-April-09, 16:43

well congrats to you all, you also find the one muppet hero 1s bidder that when its passed round to him decides to whack it with his 5224 13 count

-1

0% of the matchpoints

yay
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#7 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2015-April-09, 17:38

4♥
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#8 User is offline   chasetb 

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Posted 2015-April-09, 22:31

Usually 4♥ leads to 4♠, but I would have bid it at the table, unless the field is so inept that most of them would only bid 3♥... and then I still bid 4. We have 8 hearts, and pretty good shape. Let the donks have the top board, it happens.
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#9 User is offline   NickRW 

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Posted 2015-April-10, 03:00

View Posteagles123, on 2015-April-09, 16:43, said:

-1

0% of the matchpoints

yay


So... That doesn't make 4H necessarily wrong. Just that you lost this time.
"Pass is your friend" - my brother in law - who likes to bid a lot.
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#10 User is offline   elwood913 

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Posted 2015-April-10, 09:27

I would have bid 3. I guess I'm putting myself out there as weak. So be it.

Can you give me some insights why 4 is better than 3? Just because we have 8?

I have poor trumps, equal vul, and two little spades, so I feel 3 is good enough, let it do it's work - maybe they get too high, to low, maybe I make...
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#11 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2015-April-10, 09:54

4♥. Huge mistake to change your bidding to cater to a weak field.

One of my favorite comments from Allan Graves in a bidding pole was "I don't mind a poor result in order to maintain partnership integrity."
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#12 User is offline   jodepp 

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Posted 2015-April-10, 16:42

View Postggwhiz, on 2015-April-10, 09:54, said:

4♥. Huge mistake to change your bidding to cater to a weak field.

One of my favorite comments from Allan Graves in a bidding pole was "I don't mind a poor result in order to maintain partnership integrity."


Totally agree. The 'field' bid has to be 4♥, so the way to beat the field is to bid 'with' the field and hope you play the cards better.
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#13 User is offline   StevenG 

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Posted 2015-April-11, 02:22

View Postjodepp, on 2015-April-10, 16:42, said:

Totally agree. The 'field' bid has to be 4♥, so the way to beat the field is to bid 'with' the field and hope you play the cards better.

The field bid in a weak field is rarely 4♥ - at least, not round here. As fields get weaker, big pre-empts change from winning bridge to losing bridge.
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#14 User is offline   zillahandp 

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Posted 2015-April-11, 12:41

Oh dear you do have a lot to learn eagles, dont adjust for weak fiel just means you are oart of it, assuming you r playing wjos you might bid 3h but i prefer to pass and see how opps bid. You have no def to 4s and they might not bid it
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#15 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2015-April-11, 12:50

:lol: :lol: :lol:
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#16 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2015-April-11, 15:14

View Postzillahandp, on 2015-April-11, 12:41, said:

Oh dear you do have a lot to learn eagles, dont adjust for weak fiel just means you are oart of it, assuming you r playing wjos you might bid 3h but i prefer to pass and see how opps bid. You have no def to 4s and they might not bid it


Calm down...breath...count to 10 (speaking to myself)
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
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#17 User is offline   jodepp 

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Posted 2015-April-11, 20:42

View PostStevenG, on 2015-April-11, 02:22, said:

The field bid in a weak field is rarely 4♥ - at least, not round here. As fields get weaker, big pre-empts change from winning bridge to losing bridge.


Not in my area - everybody from all skill levels preempt first then worry later :) It's pretty aggressive.
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#18 User is offline   akwoo 

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Posted 2015-April-11, 23:36

View Postelwood913, on 2015-April-10, 09:27, said:

Can you give me some insights why 4 is better than 3? Just because we have 8?

I have poor trumps, equal vul, and two little spades, so I feel 3 is good enough, let it do it's work - maybe they get too high, to low, maybe I make...


The big advantage to bidding 4 over 3 is that it's much harder for them to find slam over the 4♥ bid.

Over 3♥, LHO has THREE ways to raise spades. He or she can bid 3♠, just competitive, 4♠, competitive with more distribution, and 4♥, showing support with strength. The last gives RHO a chance to investigate slam with extras. LHO can even make a negative double, which might allow a hunt for slam based on a double fit.

Over 4♥, a very strong LHO can look for slam with 5♥ or 5♠ (one shows a heart control and the other denies one, depending on agreement), but the hands that can do that are few. LHO has to bid 4♠ on anything from a very distributional 0 hcp hand to a flat 16 hcp hand, so RHO will find it hard to judge for slam.

The disadvantage of 4♥ is that you'll get too high or push them into a making game they wouldn't otherwise bid. Non-vulnerable, you'd have to be down 2 doubled or down 3 undoubled to be worse off than allowing 3♠ making. This is rather unlikely with 8 hearts. Having their contract go down is even less likely. As for the second, strong opponents are likely to find a making game whether you preempt 3 or 4.

I think the field is rather irrelevant here. I might consider 3♥ if opponents are known to be weak.
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#19 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2015-April-12, 06:45

View Posteagles123, on 2015-April-09, 15:52, said:

weakish field w/w mp ♠ x x ♥ A T 9 8 7 6 5 4 ♦ q x x ♣ -
(p)p(1s)??
IMO 4♥ = 10, 3♥ = 8. In this context, I don't think strength of field affects your choice much.
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#20 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2015-April-12, 17:38

To borrow from Nige's scoring system, but with real grades:

4♥ = 10, everything else = 0.

Would never dream of any other call.
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