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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#5901 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2017-May-06, 18:49

From House Republicans Go Off the Cliff by Ross Douthat:

Quote

Over the last seven years, the Republican Party has engaged in increasingly elaborate political suicide attempts. The G.O.P. has nominated cranks and erstwhile witches and Todd Akin in winnable Senate races. It has engaged in Somme-esque trench warfare within its own congressional caucus, shut down the government without a strategy for winning anything out of it, and campaigned on a sub-Ayn Randian narrative about the heroic businessman and the mooching 47 percent. And then, after all its prior efforts at seppuku failed, the party nominated Donald Trump for the presidency.

You know how that turned out.

So it would be a foolish prognosticator indeed who assumed that Thursday’s House vote for the American Health Care Act, a misbegotten Obamacare quasi-replacement with the favorable ratings of diphtheria and the strong support of almost nobody on the right who cares about health policy, will necessarily be the undoing of the congressional G.O.P.

Perhaps House Republicans will be saved by masterly policy-making in the Senate (don’t laugh). Republican senators are basically promising to start from scratch with their own health care bill, which could lead to anything from the Bill Cassidy-Susan Collins proposal to allow red states to use Obamacare money for non-Obamacare experiments while blue states keep things as they are, to an A.H.C.A. rewritten to make it reasonably defensible as policy and non-suicidal in its politics.

Such a rewriting is theoretically possible: All you need to do is spend substantially more money on insurance subsidies than the House bill does, offer substantially more money to states for high-risk pools if they want to opt out of the pre-existing condition rules, and generally make the bill look less like a self-parodic exercise in cutting Medicaid to fund tax cuts for the rich. Since liberals tend to overestimate how much people value health insurance and how much effect it has on health, a better-funded alternative to Obamacare could lead to modest coverage reductions and still be less politically disastrous than some Democrats expect.

Alternatively, maybe the Senate will simply wrangle and argue and finally do nothing, and like the Waxman-Markey cap-and-trade bill of 2009 the American Health Care Act will simply evaporate. In which case House Republicans will be able to say, hey, we tried to fix Obamacare, its ongoing problems are the Democrats’ fault, and have you checked out the unemployment rate?

So there are ways in which the House G.O.P. might yet escape the consequences of voting for such a lousy and unpopular piece of legislation. But it would not be an escape that they deserve.

The Republicans were given a gift by Trump’s campaign, a grace they did not merit: the gift of freedom from the trap of dogma, from the pre-existing condition of zombie Reaganism, from an agenda out of touch with the concerns of their actual constituents. Nominating Trump wasn’t as suicidal as it seemed only because he had the political cunning to run against the party’s ideological enforcers, while promising working-class voters not just cultural acknowledgment but material support.

As written, the A.H.C.A. basically takes Trump’s gift to the party and hurls it off the highest possible cliff. It is not just the scale of the likely insurance losses, or how much the rich benefit from repeal relative to everybody else. It’s also the gulf between that reality and what Trump and various Republican leaders explicitly promised — insisting that their plan would deliver better coverage, lower premiums, and a lot of other things that have since taken a back seat to making room in the budget for more tax cuts.

When President Obama said — lyingly – that “if you like your plan, you can keep your plan,” his party ultimately paid for it. A reasonably competent Democratic Party, with something like the A.H.C.A. to run against, should be able to make Republicans pay dearly in their turn.

Indeed, the A.H.C.A. should make the Democrats’ various internal dilemmas easier to resolve. Were Trump actually governing along the populist lines he promised, the intra-Democratic debate over “identity politics versus class politics versus making it all about Trump (and Russia?)” would be fraught and complicated, the best course of action murky.

But if the A.H.C.A. stands as the chief policy distillation of Trumpism, then the central Democratic argument in 2018 and 2020 should be entirely clear: Trump is not a populist but just another pro-plutocracy Republican, and everything his party promised you on health care was a sham.

This sounds like a winning argument to me. However: When a party repeatedly attempts suicide and somehow staggers bleeding into political victories instead, it is reasonable to doubt the rival party’s ability to capitalize even on the worst of blunders.

So two questions loom for the Republicans who voted for this terrible bill. Can the Senate save them from themselves? And if the Senate doesn’t — can the Democrats?

If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#5902 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2017-May-06, 19:16

 Winstonm, on 2017-May-05, 18:03, said:

That's so much dog poop. Marie Antoinette never worked for women's rights or children's rights nor did the bourgeoisie of France pass an Affordable Care Act, Medicare Act, and on and on and on.

She also almost certainly did not say the given quote, at least not in that form. There is a theory that she may have ordered the kitchens to give the people a form of bread that had a name in French related to cake but little evidence. Most modern historians believe that MA was fairly well in touch with the plight of the people and sympathetic. But the myth endures, a sobering lesson to the power of propaganda and alternative facts.
(-: Zel :-)
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#5903 User is offline   ldrews 

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Posted 2017-May-06, 19:23

 cherdano, on 2017-May-06, 17:56, said:

One of the Trump things that will never cease to amaze me how often his supporters or aides compare him to a toddler - see ldrews below complimenting him for throwing a toddler tantrum, or his anonymous aides describing in media reports how they keep him in a positive mood by showing lots of positive media coverage, how they gently push him to make the right decisions by offering lots of positive encouragement, etc.



Let's hope the adults in the White House have put the nuclear codes in a cupboard with better child safety locks than the ones we got from amazon. Given that they can't seem to find a safe place for his phone, I am worried.


And how well you display your lack of erudition. "kicking over the rice bowl" is not a reference to a toddler tantrum, but rather a reference to a time honored phrase indicating someone is upsetting the vested interests and putting their financial well-being at risk, a reference to the Asian focus on where the next meal is coming from, i.e. what is in their rice bowl. But then you would have had to read a lot to know that, wouldn't you?
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#5904 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-May-06, 20:26

Speaking of watching what Trump does and not what he says, we find this from the ACLU:

Quote

ACLU National ✔ @ACLU
We thought we'd have to sue Trump today. But it turned out the order signing was an elaborate photo-op with no discernible policy outcome.
4:42 PM - 4 May 2017


Once again Trump shows himself to be an empty suit trying to look presidential and failing miserably.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#5905 User is offline   ldrews 

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Posted 2017-May-06, 21:50

 Winstonm, on 2017-May-06, 20:26, said:

Speaking of watching what Trump does and not what he says, we find this from the ACLU:



Once again Trump shows himself to be an empty suit trying to look presidential and failing miserably.


Trump is obviously learning how to be a politician. A photo-op with no discernible policy outcome. Imagine that!
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#5906 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-May-07, 07:06

 ldrews, on 2017-May-06, 21:50, said:

Trump is obviously learning how to be a politician. A photo-op with no discernible policy outcome. Imagine that!


Odd to see you agree that his executive orders are mostly photo-ops for his aggrandizement and have virtually no policy effects. Maybe you are the one leaning?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#5907 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2017-May-07, 07:08

In order to play bridge higher up than the club level, one virtually must be among the economic elite. Why do all of you disdain the working class? The policies of the progressive left affects the working class directly. The elite is mostly unaffected.
In the USA there were more than 200 protest rallies on Mayday. Many were protesting Trump's war on immigrants. Trump's wife is an immigrant. The USA allows nearly 1 million legal immigrants in every year. There is no war on immigrants. There isn't even a war on illegal immigrants. The war is against illegal immigrant criminals. Only they are targeted for deportation.
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#5908 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2017-May-07, 07:32

 rmnka447, on 2017-May-05, 15:12, said:



Sorry, but sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, and Islamophobic are labels progressives like to put on anyone who disagrees with them.

Isn't sexism, homophobia, and xenophobia the basis of Islam under Sharia Law?
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#5909 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2017-May-07, 07:55

Reading about Hillary Clinton as Marie Antoinette brings to mind a question: Who will take the role of Robespierre? Actually I have a point. I am not that big a fan of Hillary Clinton. Saying this is a very long way from saying anything at all favorable about Donald Trump, Analogies rarely if ever survive a close look so I won't waste time working through a comparison of Trump with Robespierre. But the French Revolution did not work out so well for many people, not only the royals, and I don't think we will, some years frm now, look back on the Trump era as a triumph for Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité

As for today, May 7, I wish the French well as they go to the polls. Of course I have my preferences for the outcome, as they no doubt have preferences for US election outcomes.
Ken
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#5910 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2017-May-07, 07:57

 jogs, on 2017-May-07, 07:32, said:

Isn't sexism, homophobia, and xenophobia the basis of Islam under Sharia Law?

Perhaps so. But Muslim extremism doesn't have the exclusive rights to those. The problem that we left-wing liberals have with Donald Trump and his Breitbart government is that they introduce the Sharia to the free world. ISIS doesn't need to do it, if homophobia, xenophobia, sexism have already become US official policy.

Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
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#5911 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-May-07, 08:07

 jogs, on 2017-May-07, 07:32, said:

Isn't sexism, homophobia, and xenophobia the basis of Islam under Sharia Law?


You might try reading your bible, too.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#5912 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-May-07, 08:14

 jogs, on 2017-May-07, 07:08, said:

In order to play bridge higher up than the club level, one virtually must be among the economic elite. Why do all of you disdain the working class? The policies of the progressive left affects the working class directly. The elite is mostly unaffected.
In the USA there were more than 200 protest rallies on Mayday. Many were protesting Trump's war on immigrants. Trump's wife is an immigrant. The USA allows nearly 1 million legal immigrants in every year. There is no war on immigrants. There isn't even a war on illegal immigrants. The war is against illegal immigrant criminals. Only they are targeted for deportation.


If you consider NAFTA as elitist, then there is more blame on the right than left:

Quote

The impetus for NAFTA began with President Ronald Reagan, who proposed a North American common market in his campaign.


In 1984, Congress passed the Trade and Tariff Act. That gave the president "fast-track" authority to negotiate free trade agreements. It removes Congressional authority to change negotiating points. Instead, it allows Congress only the ability to approve or disapprove the entire agreement. That makes negotiation much easier for the administration. Trade partners don't have to worry that Congress will nitpick specific elements.

Canadian Prime Minister Mulroney agreed with Reagan to begin negotiations for the Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement. It was signed 1988 and went into effect 1989. NAFTA has now replaced it. (Source: "NAFTA Timeline," NaFina.)

Regan’s successor, President H.W. Bush, began negotiations with Mexican President Salinas for a liberalized trade agreement between the two countries. Before NAFTA, Mexican tariffs on U.S. imports were 250 percent higher than U.S. tariffs on Mexican imports.

In 1991, Canada requested a trilateral agreement, which then led to NAFTA. In 1993, concerns about the liberalization of labor and environmental regulations led to the adoption of two addendums.

In 1992, NAFTA was signed by President George H.W. Bush, Mexican President Salinas and Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney.


It was ratified by the legislatures of the three countries 1993. The U.S. House of Representatives approved it by 234 to 200 on November 17, 1993. The U.S. Senate approved it by 60 to 38 on November 20, three days later.

President Bill Clinton signed it into law December 8, 1993. It entered force January 1, 1994. It was a priority of President Clinton's, and its passage is considered one of his first successes. (Source: "NAFTA Signed Into Law," History.com, December 8, 1993.)


And it was with President Clinton, after NAFTA, where the Democratic party lost its way as there was not a push from the Democrats to help retrain and find new work for those who would be negatively affected by the bill.

But the ideas of removing the protections for the working class started in 1981 with Ronald Reagan and the Republicans, and it has not ceased since.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#5913 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-May-07, 10:20

From Yahoo news:

Quote

Mr Dodson said he had asked the now-President how he had secured funding for the courses, and Mr Trump “sort of tossed off that he had access to $100 million”.

The journalist then followed up with Eric Trump, who was also on the resort that day, during a ride in a golf cart.

“I said, 'Eric, who’s funding? I know no banks — because of the recession, the Great Recession — have touched a golf course. You know, no one’s funding any kind of golf construction. It’s dead in the water the last four or five years.'” the writer said.

“And this is what he said. He said, 'Well, we don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.' I said, 'Really?' And he said, 'Oh, yeah. We’ve got some guys that really, really love golf, and they’re really invested in our programmes. We just go there all the time.’”


But Trump denies any dealings with Russia. :P
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#5914 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2017-May-07, 11:26

 Trinidad, on 2017-May-07, 07:57, said:

Perhaps so. But Muslim extremism doesn't have the exclusive rights to those.
Rik

Isn't Sharia Law the real Islam? The West wants the tamer westernized version of Islam.
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#5915 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2017-May-07, 11:35

 rmnka447, on 2017-May-05, 10:14, said:

You might want to start having yearly physicals and establish a relationship with a primary care physician. The physicals will establish a baseline for your health. That can be very useful to your doctors if you do, in fact, get sick.

There's a huge doctor shortage looming. Medical school is expensive. Few new doctors want or can afford to become PCPs.

Why do healthy people need yearly physicals? Why does one need to see the PCP, then get a blood test, and see the PCP again?
Wouldn't it be more efficient and less expensive to get the blood test before seeing the doctor?
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#5916 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2017-May-07, 11:38

 Winstonm, on 2017-May-07, 08:07, said:

You might try reading your bible, too.

I'm an atheist. Every religion is a religion of war and hate.
Has the founder of any religion ever declared that some other group of people were the chosen people?
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#5917 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2017-May-07, 11:47

 Winstonm, on 2017-May-07, 08:07, said:

You might try reading your bible, too.

Doesn't bringing the bible up make you a deplorable Christianophobe?

By progressive's own standards, anyone who mentions anything about Islam is an Islamophobe. So logically, applying the same standard to comments on another religion, Christianity, ought to result in a similar characterization -- Christianophobe.
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#5918 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-May-07, 13:50

 rmnka447, on 2017-May-07, 11:47, said:

Doesn't bringing the bible up make you a deplorable Christianophobe?

By progressive's own standards, anyone who mentions anything about Islam is an Islamophobe. So logically, applying the same standard to comments on another religion, Christianity, ought to result in a similar characterization -- Christianophobe.


Your statement makes you look at best both biased and ignorant, if not simply stupid.

Btw, France today is showing in Le Pen and her 38% vote what the future looks like for the hate that is spread by Trump and his minions.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#5919 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2017-May-07, 14:34

 jogs, on 2017-May-07, 11:35, said:

There's a huge doctor shortage looming. Medical school is expensive. Few new doctors want or can afford to become PCPs.

Why do healthy people need yearly physicals? Why does one need to see the PCP, then get a blood test, and see the PCP again?
Wouldn't it be more efficient and less expensive to get the blood test before seeing the doctor?

Exactly, every year a week before my yearly physical, I go in and get all the lab work done before seeing my physician. And, that testing is also used to meet the needs of some other physicians that need to see me on a periodic basis through some record sharing.

I think there's several issues that need to be addressed to increase the availability of care as we move to universal health care:

1) Is there a capability to increase the number of doctors available without endangering care? That would include looking at whether the capacity of medical schools to produce doctors could be increased. It would also look at factors that are causing doctors to retire earlier than normal -- a more recent phenomena.

2) Are there ways to relieve doctors of some more mundane parts of their jobs -- physician's assistants, nurse practitioners, etc. ?

3) Other ways to make the health care delivery more efficient so overall care can be expanded?

As for yearly physicals, they help with preventative care. First, as I said, the doctor builds baseline data of a patient's health. That makes it easier for the physician easier to detect changes in the patient's health. For example, the physician may be able to detect prediabetic rises in a patient's blood sugar. That may enable the patient to make life style changes that can curtail the onset of Type II diabetes. Even if that doesn't occur, it may allow the physician to start treating the condition with cheap medications that retard the advance of the disease. Likewise, for coronary artery disease.

For other diseases, such as cancer, early detection may be critical for increasing a patient's chances for survival or for a complete cure.

So at the expense of some increased face time with patients, the need for extremely expensive care may be reduced resulting in an overall savings in medical expenses and amount of care required. That doesn't take into consideration the quality of life issues that can result from the early detection and treatment or early detection and cure of diseases.

Unfortunately, many diseases don't have many discernible symptoms until they get very serious. So letting things go undetected can have some dire consequences.
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#5920 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2017-May-07, 14:43

 Winstonm, on 2017-May-07, 13:50, said:

Your statement makes you look at best both biased and ignorant, if not simply stupid.

You're 0 for 3 on that one.
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