[shyams]

---

[helene_t]

4nt and then pulling 5♣ to 5♦ should show this shape by meta-agreements although it may be better played as a slam try (stronger than direct 5♦).

Undiscussed I just try 5♦.

[Cyberyeti]

helene_t, on 2016-January-04, 05:24, said:

4nt and then pulling 5♣ to 5♦ should show this shape by meta-agreements although it may be better played as a slam try (stronger than direct 5♦).

Undiscussed I just try 5♦.

I would assume that 4N is 2 places to play and bid that.

[rmnka447]

I'm with helene_t on this one. One of the reasons you bid on is the stiff ♠. You know there's only 1 ♠ loser, but partner may well be looking at ♠ xx and be uncertain what to do if the auction is passed back to him/her.

[mike777]

5d, what I would have bid the first round.

[zillahandp]

5h clear, p has four hts and even if he has two aces six could be hard.

[Caitlynne]

I am a 4NT bidder. This is a standard takeout based on long diamonds and a second shorter suit. If partner bids 5C, I will correct to 5D, showing a shorter heart suit (and probably not 5 good hearts), and let partner make any further decisions/moves.

[Caitlynne]

zillahandp, on 2016-January-05, 05:32, said:

5h clear, p has four hts and even if he has two aces six could be hard.

It is not clear that partner has 4 hearts. What would you bid with either

xx, Axx, Qxx, Axxxx

or

xxx, Jxx, Qxx, AQxxx

?

I surely am not passing for I would never be able to catch up if partner subsequently reopens with a double.

The negative double suggests a desire to bid and no good natural bid. That usually means 4 hearts after a 1S overcall, but it could mean bit beyond the minimum in terms of honor values.

[dave_beer]

My vote was for 5♦.

I have a 4 loser hand and partner passed as dealer so slam is unlikely to be as good as on a finesse and I have no way of finding out.

I rejected both 4NT (presumably some kind of takeout bid) and 5♥ because 7-4 hands frequently do no play well in 4-4 fits.

[case_no_6]

You can't bid 5H with only 4 hearts. There is no guarantee that partner has 4 hearts. I bid 4NT and correct 5C to 5D to show this hand.

[wank]

case_no_6, on 2016-January-05, 13:04, said:

There is no guarantee that partner has 4 hearts.

quite right. he might have psyched or pulled the wrong bidding card.

[MrAce]

Absent agreement 5♥

[lorserker]

I voted 5♦, but I like 4NT.
IMO 5♦ rates to be a better contract even if partner does have four hearts because partner is very likely to hold at least three diamonds.
Going for the higher scoring major game is not as relevant after this auction, is it? and undertricks are scored the same way in both major and minors

[bb116]

4NT should be 2 places to play in this auction. It cant be to play as I would x for penalty.
I feel we need X for penalty. (Responsive x thru 3♠)Bidding a suit would show I want to compete/sac.
5♦should work assuming partner has 3 in the unbid suits for x, but I would assume partner may be 2425 or 2434 at this point and correct their 5♣to ♦ and settle for 5♥correction from there.

[helene_t]

I believe that partner has four hearts. I have one very rare occasions dbld with something like xx-AJx-Kxx-Jxxxx but a passed hand can bid 2♣ with that, and even as an unpassed hand it would be a bit dubious. If 1♦ guarantees four cards, 2♦ is better, and otherwise there is always the green card.

But I also think that a 7-2 fit in diamonds is likely to play better after such an autions where badly splitting trumps are likely.

[zillahandp]

Spot n wank

[BRBanger]

I bid 4NT, two places to play. Pull 5C to 5D, showing long diamonds and 4 hearts. I agree with helene_t that 5D is safer than 5H, provided partner has 2-3 diamonds. If hearts break 4-1, we could get forced in both hands. I'd be happier if partner has 5 hearts, which is quite conceivable, e.g. 2-5-1-5.

[shyams]

OK, I buy that 4NT would be a great bid. TBH, it didn't even occur to me at the table; and I thank the forum for this useful suggestion.

If (as an addendum) I stated that it was Matchpoints, would it make any difference to your chosen action?

[rhm]

Caitlynne, on 2016-January-05, 11:10, said:

It is not clear that partner has 4 hearts. What would you bid with either

xx, Axx, Qxx, Axxxx

or

xxx, Jxx, Qxx, AQxxx

?

I surely am not passing for I would never be able to catch up if partner subsequently reopens with a double.

The negative double suggests a desire to bid and no good natural bid. That usually means 4 hearts after a 1S overcall, but it could mean bit beyond the minimum in terms of honor values.

Muddled thinking I dare say, though you are not alone.
If a minor suit opener fetches a spade overcall it is very common that advancer will raise or jump raise overcaller when he has support.
It escapes me how you ever want to land on your feet when a negative double can show almost any number of hearts over a spade overcall.
I have found it disaster prone if a negative double (unless very strong) does not guarantee at least 4 cards in the remaining unbid major (unless you have a specific agreements that it denies 4 cards).
Opener simply has to rely on this when considering a contract in the unbid major after a likely raise or jump raise by advancer.
(I still prefer 4NT on the actual hand)

If you can not stand a Pass, it must be much better with the hands you give to bid 2♣, forcing or not, making it unlikely that you hold 4 cards in the unbid major.
But let's change to a worse scenario: With the hands you gave assume the minors were reversed and opener had opened 1♣ instead. Now a 2♦ response over 1♠ would be more problematic.
The alternative is in deed to pass. You say you can not catch up then?
A reopening double at a low level does commonly not promise any extra beyond an opening.
So tell us with what strength responder can afford to raise the level voluntarily by jumping in a new suit or cue-bid after Pass if the reopening double does not promise more than a minimum opening?
Responder simply must have a hand of invitational or near invitational strength not suited for immediate action.
Accordingly I can not see why you can not catch up.

Rainer Herrmann

[rmnka447]

shyams, on 2016-January-07, 13:07, said:

OK, I buy that 4NT would be a great bid. TBH, it didn't even occur to me at the table; and I thank the forum for this useful suggestion.

If (as an addendum) I stated that it was Matchpoints, would it make any difference to your chosen action?

No, at this high level, you just try to get to a good spot versus the perfect spot. Unless the doubler can do so, it's pretty hard to discern whether 5 ♥ is better than 5 ♦ because it also makes and scores more. Tell your story and let partner decide, then accept the result.