[shyams]

In a Matchpoints game on BBO, I was dealt this 25 HCP monster (probably why I remember it!)

Dealer: East, Matchpoints, playing SAYC or 2/1

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Assuming the bidding starts with two passes followed by 2♣ by West (or by a monster 3NT opening, if that's what you prefer), I'd love to hear how people would bid this (using any gadgets as needed)?

[Cyberyeti]

We're not getting beyond 5♥.

2♣-2♦(neg)
2♥(kokish)-2♠ (semi forced)
2N (24-25 bal)-3♦ (transfer)
3♥-3♠
4♥-?

At this point the small hand either gives up or asks aces and finds he's missing the trump KQ/AQ so signs off in 5♥. We break transfers very freely so E knows W doesn't have any 4 hearts or 3 and a good side 5 card suit, and W knows E doesn't 7 hearts or he wouldn't have bid 2♠.

[mgoetze]

Cyberyeti, on 2016-January-13, 05:29, said:

We break transfers very freely

But perhaps not freely enough?

[nige1]

shyams, on 2016-January-13, 03:55, said:

In a Matchpoints game on BBO, I was dealt this 25 HCP monster (probably why I remember it!)
Dealer: East, Matchpoints, playing SAYC or 2/1
Assuming the bidding starts with two passes followed by 2♣ by West (or by a monster 3NT opening, if that's what you prefer), I'd love to hear how people would bid this (using any gadgets as needed)?

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Depends on what gadgets you've agreed e.g.

• 2/1: _P-2♣-2♦-2N-3♣-3♥-4♦-4♥. (Where 2♦ = K at most. 2N = reverse Kokish 24+ flat. 3♣ = Muppet. 3♥ = No 4CM, 4♦ = 6+ ♥).
• Jasmine: _P-1♣-1♦-2N - and so on (Where 1♣ = 16+/ 1♦ = 0-8. 2N = 24-25 flat... ).

[kenrexford]

My auction is actually easier if second seat opens, say, 1S. I double with the huge hand, showing

0-4 HCP, 3+ in hearts, diamonds, clubs, or
15-18 balanced, or
11-18 takeout, or
16-18, shape appropriate for X rather than other, or
24+ HCP, any shape.

After my Son-of-RUNT double, partner presumably bids 1NT, artificial Herbert Negative, any shape.

I bid 2NT, 24+ balanced.

Partner now has three options. He could bid Texas, showing long hearts and less than 5 HCP, or Jacoby then 4H, showing the ssme thing but mild slam interest. Or, he could go all in with Jacoby 3D and a 3S cue, showing 0-4 HCP but strong slam interest.

Thus, the fact that I can actually show 24+ oppozite 0-4, and then say whethrr the 0-4 is no, mild, or strong slam interest, plus then cuebid opposite strong, is fairly good.

[Zelandakh]

kenrexford, on 2016-January-13, 18:38, said:

My auction is actually easier if second seat opens, say, 1S. I double with the huge hand, showing

Partner now has three options. He could bid Texas, showing long hearts and less than 5 HCP, or Jacoby then 4H, showing the ssme thing but mild slam interest. Or, he could go all in with Jacoby 3D and a 3S cue, showing 0-4 HCP but strong slam interest.

Thus, the fact that I can actually show 24+ oppozite 0-4, and then say whethrr the 0-4 is no, mild, or strong slam interest, plus then cuebid opposite strong, is fairly good.

Why can you not do the same in a 2♣ -> 2NT auction. I assume the other posters also have at least 3 options for heart-based hands. I thought the issue being raised was more how to keep spades in the picture for the times when that is right. That is an issue I do not have as my auction begins 1♣ - 1♦; 3♥ showing 25-26 balanced without a 4 card major, although now of course there are only 2 ways to 4♥ so the cue sequence option has to be sacrificed.

[kenrexford]

Zelandakh, on 2016-January-14, 04:49, said:

Why can you not do the same in a 2♣ -> 2NT auction. I assume the other posters also have at least 3 options for heart-based hands. I thought the issue being raised was more how to keep spades in the picture for the times when that is right. That is an issue I do not have as my auction begins 1♣ - 1♦; 3♥ showing 25-26 balanced without a 4 card major, although now of course there are only 2 ways to 4♥ so the cue sequence option has to be sacrificed.

I mean, obviously this is silly, but being able to show 24 balanced, easy. Being able to deny points, easy. But, having 3S available as a slam move setting hearts because of the opening, and knowing that all finesses will work, not so much.

[Cyberyeti]

mgoetze, on 2016-January-13, 10:53, said:

But perhaps not freely enough?

Why, I don't think slam is that great on a spade lead.

[mgoetze]

Cyberyeti, on 2016-January-14, 06:02, said:

Why,

Because the West hand is significantly better for a heart slam than an average 25 HCP hand. KJx AJx AKQJ KQJ is also a 25 HCP hand.

Cyberyeti, on 2016-January-14, 06:02, said:

I don't think slam is that great on a spade lead.

I'm not sure East should move towards slam even over a superaccept, so that seems irrelevant.

[Cyberyeti]

mgoetze, on 2016-January-14, 06:33, said:

Because the West hand is significantly better for a heart slam than an average 25 HCP hand. KJx AJx AKQJ KQJ is also a 25 HCP hand.

The second example is a really poor 25 (and I would bid as 24 if ranges split differently). You have to decide which hands you break on, we break on any 4, and 3 with a good 5 card side suit. We get definition on those hands, if we break on the hand in the OP, we lose definition on those hands.

Quote

I'm not sure East should move towards slam even over a superaccept, so that seems irrelevant.

Depends what they know about the superaccept, Ax, Axxx, AKJx, AKQ is pretty much a cold slam requiring not much more than trumps 2-1, it's nearly as good without Q♣.

[Zelandakh]

kenrexford, on 2016-January-14, 05:30, said:

I mean, obviously this is silly, but being able to show 24 balanced, easy. Being able to deny points, easy. But, having 3S available as a slam move setting hearts because of the opening, and knowing that all finesses will work, not so much.

Not sure I follow about finesses work. We are talking about the general case here, right? You wrote that the auction would be easier for you if second seat opened because you could use your X->2NT sequence but I do not see why this makes it easier in comparison with the big hand opening. Whether the slam is good or not seems to me to be irrelevant to that discussion.

[apollo1201]

I think I manage to stay off the slam and at the safe 4 level, after a good old Stayman sequence. Yes, responder has a 4 card-major, it seems like lots
didn't notice. Or maybe with such an unbalanced strength between the 2 hands, it is better to play in 6-2 or 6-3♥ fit (hum, on a bad day it could be 6-1 with a stiff A or K) even if partner has 4♠?

With my partner, we would bid something like
2♦ - 2♥ GF - aceless, 0-1 King, 0-7 HCPs,(we wrong-sided the contract but it makes no difference in this case)
2N - 3♣ 24-26 balanced - Stayman
3♦ - 3♠ no 4cM - 5+♥ and 4♠
4♥ pass

I think as opener I would simply bids 4♥ rather than cue-bidding, to show a hand with no real extras (ok, lots of AK, but knowing 9 major cards at least opposite, the ♣Q and ♦J are wasted, so unless partner has M honors, slam is bad and with a maximum like Kxxx QJxxx xx xx, partner is welcome to continue bidding). Responder, with his 6th♥ is probably not strong enough (weak suits and questionable value of the stiff ♦Q) to make a further move facing a not-too cooperative partner.

Even if I cue 4♣ as opener, I would now contend with 4♥ over 4♦, having already done enough, and things probably stop there as we both lack a little something to continue (namely decent trumps or decent trump support).