[Phil]

NV vs NV, Matchpoints.

AJx Jx Axx JTxxx

(1H) P (1N) ?

1N is forcing

[eagles123]

not quite for me , of course if it goes 2h p p then we can act

[billw55]

Pass. For me at least one of those jacks must be a king to even consider jumping in.

I doubt we can buy it in 2♣, and partner couldn't scrape up a 1♠ call all white at matchpoints. I think we are destined to defend this one, why give ops any hints? And that is without considering the times we get clobbered.

[diana_eva]

I wouldn't, but curious why anyone would.

[rmnka447]

Pass.

If 1 NT is forcing, it is folly to jump into the auction without a strong source of tricks. The reason is that the 1 NT response isn't necessarily a weak bid at this point. By bidding, you could be just jumping into the inferno.

Your hand has 9 losers. You might be looking at taking only 3-4 tricks yourself in a 2 level contract.

Change your hand to something like Axx xx xx KQJxxx and you can compete. The quality and length of your long suit increases the number of tricks you can take and reduces any potential penalty. The point is that when coming in after a forcing NT with neither opposing bidder limited, you need to have something good to compete.

I guess my comments are colored by an experience I had decades ago. On a similar auction, I overcalled with a decent ( KQ10xx ) suit and 12 good points against a top pair in a tournament. -1100 later, I had learned a lifetime lesson that has kept me in good stead since when the itch to jump in pops up.

[ggwhiz]

diana_eva, on 2016-February-12, 16:40, said:

I wouldn't, but curious why anyone would.

The only reason is if it goes 1nt float too often when partner should balance but if you start coming in on hands like this, they will continue to not balance and will stop raising your overcalls too.

[kenberg]

I don't regard it as anywhere near a 2C bid so the issue, for me, is would I double? I regard it as close but I'll go with the thoughts above and pass. I have two hearts not one and three spades not four, and while my aces are nice, two aces take only two tricks.

Partner probably but not certainly has four spades. Opponents who open 1H can but usually don't have four spades, and my rho might well have bid 1S if he had four, someone has four, so I imaging doubling will lead to partner bidding 2S. If I could make it clear he is not to get enthusiastic and bid 3S, this might be ok..

[Vampyr]

kenberg, on 2016-February-12, 21:16, said:

Partner probably but not certainly has four spades. Opponents who open 1H can but usually don't have four spades,

Well it depends on the system. For example, playing 5-card majors, some hands with hearts and no other 4-card or longer suit will be opened 1NT; many if playing a Weak NT, fewer if playing Strong NT. So a hand opened 1♥ is likely to have more than 5 hearts or another 4+ suit if in the NT range.

[mikestar13]

X is too aggressive for my tastes even at these colors, but I can see it. 2♣ is a standout if (and only if) the bidder has a substantial bet on the opponents.

[wank]

wtf? double's insanely aggressive.

white at matchpoints? oh, yes, i'm in.

[wank]

eagles123, on 2016-February-12, 15:16, said:

not quite for me , of course if it goes 2h p p then we can act

unless they have a fit it's better to bid earlier. if we smack 2h in the passout they're in a great position to double us, having found they've got no fit, and there's a good chance it's misfit for all sides and we're endplaying partner. it's much harder for them to get us if we can stop in 2m.

[Zelandakh]

ggwhiz, on 2016-February-12, 17:27, said:

The only reason is if it goes 1nt float too often when partner should balance but if you start coming in on hands like this, they will continue to not balance and will stop raising your overcalls too.

Perhaps the OP was edited but it says 1NT is forcing, rather minimising the risk of it going 3xP. Any other reasons for acting spring to mind? Shame Phil did not write this as a poll, perhaps we could have had a shot at a unanimous one.

[kenberg]

Even though I am passing, I would like to hear more about why 2C is preferable to X. That is, imagine that for some strange reason you are required to do one or the other.

My thinking is that this looks like a battle for a part score, First assume that they get the contract. If it is 2NT then I will lead a club and whatever happens happens. If they are playing in a red suit, most likely with declarer on my left, I really don't want partner leading a club for Kx or Ax. If I come in, and not in a balancing position, with a 2 level overcall I like to have a more serious suit. The hand is strong enough for 2C, the suit isn't.

If I double, partner will bid 2S whenever he has four spades. I agree with the comment above that I can not be all that certain partner has four, but I think it will be often. And, on occasion, five. If partner, instead, is 3=4=4=2, we may well survive in diamonds.

Now about the play. Suppose I play in 3C. The defense may start with three top hearts. It is true i can ruff, but the fuff is just control, not a trick, since I was getting my long club anyway. If, otoh, partner is playing in spades in his 4-3 fit, the third round ruff gives me a trick. Of course with two hearts on the board the opponents will (on most layouts) not let my partner get that ruff, but as they prevent him from doing so they may give him some help in timing, and they have to crack the spade suit.

So I am not coming in, but if I were to do so, it would be with a double. As always, I value other views.

[ggwhiz]

kenberg, on 2016-February-13, 08:14, said:

Even though I am passing, I would like to hear more about why 2C is preferable to X.

Not an attractive hand to play on a moyse and too likely to land in one but it's just a matter of style with my partnership.

We tread carefully after an overcall which we are very aggressive with but our doubles are the real deal and partner is encouraged to go the extra step with shapely trash over one. That would get us too high on this hand opposite a 5-3 fit but stop in 2 of them after a 2♣ overcall (or play my 5-1 club fit).

[the_clown]

My hand has no shape, 2 defensive tricks and only 3 spades. Partner couldnt overcall 1♠ white at MP.
I cant see how a double could be a good idea, so I just pass and try to win the board in defense.

[SteveMoe]

Pass and await the opportunity to balance.
If I were to act now it would be double, not 2♣

[mike777]

Phil, on 2016-February-12, 14:57, said:

NV vs NV, Matchpoints.

AJx Jx Axx JTxxx

(1H) P (1N) ?

1N is forcing

pass wtp?

ohh it is mp

[neilkaz]

Clear pass for me, in spite of scoring? I don't have 4♠, I don't have a decent 5 card ♣ suit. I have little more useful than two aces. Why bid?

[PhilG007]

Phil, on 2016-February-12, 14:57, said:

NV vs NV, Matchpoints.

AJx Jx Axx JTxxx

(1H) P (1N) ?

1N is forcing

PASS is obvious. LHO has not yet declared his full strength. He could be sitting with a 19 pointer and is testing
the water. Any overcall you make could trigger a penalty double on your left and you can get ready with the
sackcloth and ashes. In this game,a highly developed sense of danger is an essential tool to have.

[creatbid]

Phil, on 2016-February-12, 14:57, said:

NV vs NV, Matchpoints.

AJx Jx Axx JTxxx

(1H) P (1N) ?

1N is forcing

It seems you don't like a pass so your topic is still here, but the only favorable thing for you is your distribution：2-♥ and 3+support including a stopper at least on other suits. Your hand isn't enough for a take-out double(12+pts, especially when your 3jacks are the most useless hcps), and JTxxx is a bad suit for 2♣overcall. Moreover, the forcing 1nt has a range stronger than the one showing 2-♥ and 6-10hcp and your pd has passed. If you really want to buy a contract by the double, you shall do it only when opponents not you are vulnerable so that you will lose less with penalty doubles.

This post has been edited by diana_eva: 2016-February-14, 07:55